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Please add your name to the petition.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 4:34 am
Hmmm...

I'm neutral here, not picking holes.

But I can see more than just that.

Maybe some of the better known builders are Afols with a sense of slightly more adult humour (well, they are adults...) and we only notice it as they're more known than most other builders (again, as being adults they can afford to buy lots of lego and build bigger better things than earn recognition)

I agree that some of it might be a little unsuitable for kids... yet a huge proportion of the people on here are 8-12 year old "halo kids" or "clone kids" ... they're certainly not doing anything unsuitable.

Oh, except the "blablabla... yeah that's cool...please rate and comment my stuff" type comments left all the time...

Personally I'm more for a petition to stop these self-advertising spammers than somebody who makes a creation that makes me laugh.

Just offering a point of view, anyway... I agree that maybe the more extreme stuff should be a little better moderated...

- Dan
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 5:18 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Dan the Man
Hmmm...

I'm neutral here, not picking holes.

But I can see more than just that.

Maybe some of the better known builders are Afols with a sense of slightly more adult humour (well, they are adults...) and we only notice it as they're more known than most other builders (again, as being adults they can afford to buy lots of lego and build bigger better things than earn recognition)

I agree that some of it might be a little unsuitable for kids... yet a huge proportion of the people on here are 8-12 year old "halo kids" or "clone kids" ... they're certainly not doing anything unsuitable.

Oh, except the "blablabla... yeah that's cool...please rate and comment my stuff" type comments left all the time...

Personally I'm more for a petition to stop these self-advertising spammers than somebody who makes a creation that makes me laugh.

Just offering a point of view, anyway... I agree that maybe the more extreme stuff should be a little better moderated...

- Dan


I see your point. I have changed the group to be more direct... Giovanni has recently posted a MOC that is r@cist and such, read the homepage if you want more info.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 5:25 am
Quoting Dan the Man
Hmmm...

I'm neutral here, not picking holes.

But I can see more than just that.

Maybe some of the better known builders are Afols with a sense of slightly more adult humour (well, they are adults...) and we only notice it as they're more known than most other builders (again, as being adults they can afford to buy lots of lego and build bigger better things than earn recognition)

I agree that some of it might be a little unsuitable for kids... yet a huge proportion of the people on here are 8-12 year old "halo kids" or "clone kids" ... they're certainly not doing anything unsuitable.

Oh, except the "blablabla... yeah that's cool...please rate and comment my stuff" type comments left all the time...

Personally I'm more for a petition to stop these self-advertising spammers than somebody who makes a creation that makes me laugh.

Just offering a point of view, anyway... I agree that maybe the more extreme stuff should be a little better moderated...

- Dan

I agree with some points Dan but...
lego is generally a children's hobby and if adults decide to add MOCs about inuendo or racism they should do it on their own sites or other forums.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 5:32 am
Just to let you guys know, I've notified Sean regarding Gio's post.

While I personally like Giovanni quite a bit, I do think that this one is over the line (if I get the innuendo there). I also think he very well KNOWS he's pushing it with this one. In fact, I think he did this just to see if you guys would get riled up about it...which, it appears, he succeeded in doing.

The best thing I can suggest is; in the future, if you see something that you find offensive, quietly let the mods know about it - on MOCpages, I might add...not naming any names...Flare ;-) - and we'll have a look. The less attention the "button-pushing" MOCs get, the better.

Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 8:14 am
I completely agree that racism sux! I'm Greek, and copped my fair share growing up in Australia just for that. I know Americans see Greek and Italians as white people as does the entire rest of the world, but here in Australia, they only really started to accept us when every other race on earth landed here as well.
Don't get me wrong, my generation is fine now, and almost all my friends are Australian, and I do consider myself Australian, just of Greek background rather than English. All pretty funny when you consider the next in line for the throne of England and hence Australia is himself half Greek. But I digress.

Ofcourse racism shouldn't be part of a site like this, or any really. But I would emplore you guys to really decipher if something is as bad as you might think. Gio's latest? I probably agree with Kelso.

But seriously, alot of us Afol's have some innuendous gags here and there, but the TV is full of them. Yes, we need to all make sure we are well behaved and their is definitely a line somewhere which is what makes it hard when someone skates so close to it.

Imagine how I felt when I released a MOc asking why it was so hard to get Black mini-fig parts as I like showing diverstity in my Mocs. I had a guy complain to me that I should say African AMerican instead of Black! As if all Black people are from the U.S.A! I'm dating a Kenyan Lady for goodness sake.

Anyway Flare, I like your Mocs, and I like your stance, but do please take a deep breath before going after someone?


Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 8:44 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Mark Kelso
Just to let you guys know, I've notified Sean regarding Gio's post.

While I personally like Giovanni quite a bit, I do think that this one is over the line (if I get the innuendo there). I also think he very well KNOWS he's pushing it with this one. In fact, I think he did this just to see if you guys would get riled up about it...which, it appears, he succeeded in doing.

The best thing I can suggest is; in the future, if you see something that you find offensive, quietly let the mods know about it - on MOCpages, I might add...not naming any names...Flare ;-) - and we'll have a look. The less attention the "button-pushing" MOCs get, the better.


Sorry...
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 8:45 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Parrington Levens
Anyway Flare, I like your Mocs, and I like your stance, but do please take a deep breath before going after someone?


You honestly don't understand my position. Thank you for your opinion.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 9:06 am
 Group admin 
Also fellows, to avoid other arguments I must say then when something is very wrong, I find it very wrong, and I can DO something about it, I AM GOING TO. I'm not going to just sit and watch it get worse and worse.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 9:10 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Mark Kelso
In fact, I think he did this just to see if you guys would get riled up about it...which, it appears, he succeeded in doing.


Ah, but you see, I didn't think of this because in the past I have very much respected Gio, so I did not expect him to do something of this sort.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 9:11 am
Now the theme's one I can totally agree too :)

A little bit of slightly adult humor - which when I've come across it on peoples pages, is always said in an indirect kind of way - is alright, it makes you laugh...

... but this, no. Racism and religious insults just aren't good to anyone.

That said, the opposite - people raving on about their religion - is nearly as bad.

I'm signing up right now... I'm not sure what can be done about this, besides the moderators getting a bit stricter.

Maybe a warning system ?

When you leave a coomment it says leaving racist comments etc can get you banned - so why not implement a system where if something like this gets found, a moderator moderates it as necessary and the poster gets a warning (always fair to give a second chance). If they choose to ignore that warning, the next time, they get banned and the offending pages removed.

That's one idea I'll put forward.

Dan
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 9:24 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Dan the Man
Now the theme's one I can totally agree too :)

A little bit of slightly adult humor - which when I've come across it on peoples pages, is always said in an indirect kind of way - is alright, it makes you laugh...

... but this, no. R@cism and religious insults just aren't good to anyone.

That said, the opposite - people raving on about their religion - is nearly as bad.

I'm signing up right now... I'm not sure what can be done about this, besides the moderators getting a bit stricter.

Maybe a warning system ?

When you leave a comment it says leaving racist comments etc can get you banned - so why not implement a system where if something like this gets found, a moderator moderates it as necessary and the poster gets a warning (always fair to give a second chance). If they choose to ignore that warning, the next time, they get banned and the offending pages removed.

That's one idea I'll put forward.

Dan


Thank you Dan, I agree completely.

Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 10:24 am
Quoting Flare .

Sorry...


No biggie, Flare. I can certainly understand why it honked you off, and regardless of HOW you responded, I think you were right TO repsond, and not let it go unchecked.

I think a lot of the times, posts like these are created to get attention, so the best thing we can do is not give it to them.

Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 11:01 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Mark Kelso

No biggie, Flare. I can certainly understand why it honked you off, and regardless of HOW you responded, I think you were right TO repsond, and not let it go unchecked.

I think a lot of the times, posts like these are created to get attention, so the best thing we can do is not give it to them.


Aha. So did you get my second response?

EDIT: Now whats even worse, is that people like Bones are supporting him...

They say that it doesn't have to do with r@cism at all, but it does.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 11:08 am
Quoting Flare .

Aha. So did you get my second response?

EDIT: Now whats even worse, is that people like Bones are supporting him...

They say that it doesn't have to do with r@cism at all, but it does.
So, here I am.

Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 11:32 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Little Ewok
Quoting Flare .

Aha. So did you get my second response?

EDIT: Now whats even worse, is that people like Bones are supporting him...

They say that it doesn't have to do with r@cism at all, but it does.
So, here I am.


You said that I didn't understand the 'joke' fully. Could you explain please?
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 11:34 am
Quoting Flare .

You said that I didn't understand the 'joke' fully. Could you explain please?
I think if you look at the MOC now there are some comments that might help you. Apologies if it is me that is wrong. I strongly detest racism but I don't think that's what this MOC is, although I can see how some interpret it as that.

Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 11:42 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Little Ewok
Quoting Flare .

You said that I didn't understand the 'joke' fully. Could you explain please?
I think if you look at the MOC now there are some comments that might help you. Apologies if it is me that is wrong. I strongly detest racism but I don't think that's what this MOC is, although I can see how some interpret it as that.


How do you interpret it then, because I intrepret it as r@cism and crude jokes, nothing else.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 1:31 pm
I agree. However I am thankful that this one has been attended to by Sean. Good to see that the at least one Mod and Admin have a solid head on their shoulders.

I also question whether this kind of content is allowed on MOCpages. Families like Dave and John frequent this site but to what end? Too many times I see things like "WARNING ADULT CONTENT" Which I am grateful for them telling me but does it belong HERE? Deep Philosophical questions...
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 2:52 pm
Here are my thoughts on the situation.

First, what Gio posted WAS over the line and had no place on MOCpages. There are a number of us (myself included) who have adult oriented humor in our posts but that humor is low key enough to be acceptable (ie: the same type of humor that can be found on shows on regular television).

Second, racism has NO place on MOCpages. Anyone who does not like another person (or group of people) based simply on color, religion or any other of the thousands of differences that we have needs to take a long walk off a short pier. Yes, this INCLUDES people like the CFOL who hate anyone that doesn’t see things exactly their way. Freedom of religion means ANY religion people. But that’s not what this particular issue is about so we can have that that discussion another time.

Now, here’s the kicker of this whole situation… While racism is NOT allowed on MOCpages AND Gio’s moc was not appropriate for MOCpages, it wasn’t racist. There was something else there that made it wrong for MOCpages, but it wasn’t racist (or in this case, to be technical, anti-Semitic). What that thing was, I WILL NOT tell you. If you didn’t “get” the joke then that means that you are still innocent in that regard (and trust me, that’s a GOOD thing).

So in theory I completely agree with what you want to do here Flare, and I support your actions and your “want” to keep MOCpages clean for all to enjoy, just be sure that when you’re pulling the trigger, you’re aiming at the correct target.

Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 5:37 pm
Quoting Blake Baer
I agree. However I am thankful that this one has been attended to by Sean. Good to see that the at least one Mod and Admin have a solid head on their shoulders.


All this talk about offending people and you go and drop something like THAT? I take HUGE offence to what you just said. "At least ONE Mod and Admin?"

Wow... really? Do you have any CLUE how much I do for this site? Do you know how many countless hours I spend making sure that YOU have a site that you can enjoy? Do you know how much I put in to pulling the community together with events, contests and all the rest? Did you even THINK before you typed that?

And how do you know that I don't AGREE with what's going on here? You don't. You just assume that because there's no comment from me when you happen to show up that I'm against it. For the record, my comment is waiting for Flare to approve it. I used the "R" word (let's see if he lets it through).

Perhaps instead of running around trying to point fingers at other people who are offending someone, try looking at yourself first. There's a saying about glass houses that you may want to think about here.




Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 6:12 pm
Quoting Dan the Man
Hmmm...

I'm neutral here, not picking holes.

But I can see more than just that.

Maybe some of the better known builders are Afols with a sense of slightly more adult humour (well, they are adults...) and we only notice it as they're more known than most other builders (again, as being adults they can afford to buy lots of lego and build bigger better things than earn recognition)

I agree that some of it might be a little unsuitable for kids... yet a huge proportion of the people on here are 8-12 year old "halo kids" or "clone kids" ... they're certainly not doing anything unsuitable.

Oh, except the "blablabla... yeah that's cool...please rate and comment my stuff" type comments left all the time...

Personally I'm more for a petition to stop these self-advertising spammers than somebody who makes a creation that makes me laugh.

Just offering a point of view, anyway... I agree that maybe the more extreme stuff should be a little better moderated...

- Dan

I'm no clone kid, am I?

Haha but the real comment-

I see what you are saying... and that is all I hve to say ;)
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 6:23 pm
I've been confronted with racism, too, and it still happens sometime. Mostly because of the way I dress. It is something that you shouldn't find on MP, but no where else in the internet or in the real world as well.

I agree, when it comes to such things, they should be reported and moderated immediately.
But in my opinion little gags or innuendos can't be seen as racism. Even if they're suggestive, children won't understand them anyway.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 6:29 pm
As most of you know, I am HUGE on peace, law, and order. Though personally I have not seen much Racism, I do support anyone who fights to end it. What I am about to say may be taken offense to, but I feel I must speak my mind.

As many of you might have noticed, there are quite a few "wars", fights, spamming, takeovers, and other offenses going on. If I may be so bold as to say this, Enforcement has been... lacking. Someone breaks the rules and then they are given a warning if they are lucky. Some don't even get warned, sometimes their offense is shrugged off. It has gotten to the point where warnings mean nothing. They just keep on with their normal cycle and they are still "scott free".

Not going to name names here, but you all know the kind of people I am talking about. As the Creator/Owner of the 3rd largest group on the pages, I see quite a few of these members. A lot of the time they come into my group trying to start trouble. After a while it gets really annoying. All the while nothing is being done about their trouble causing.

So, who has to deal with it? Me. I even had to create special groups to deal with the problems, and those have worked reletively effectively. But I ask myself and those around me, "why should I be the one having to deal with all these problems? Where is the MOCpages team?"

Now I know you might think I am pointing fingers, I am not. I am simply trying to see a positive change. Since I don't have the power to help everyone, or the authority, I have to act on my own. I don't even get a thank you. I do what I do to help people, plain and simple. If we were given specific groups with the support of the MOCpages team, I'm sure the pages would be much better period.

So there's my take on things. Now it is up to someone to do something about it all. We all have our own responsibilities, but if we take on a bit more together, the work's results would be amazing.

Q
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 7:17 pm
Quoting Michael Qoyawayma
Where is the MOCpages team?"

Now I know you might think I am pointing fingers, I am not. I am simply trying to see a positive change. Since I don't have the power to help everyone, or the authority, I have to act on my own. I don't even get a thank you. I do what I do to help people, plain and simple. If we were given specific groups with the support of the MOCpages team, I'm sure the pages would be much better period.

So there's my take on things. Now it is up to someone to do something about it all. We all have our own responsibilities, but if we take on a bit more together, the work's results would be amazing.

Q


See now, here's the problem that we run in to...

Who decides what is grounds for removal? You, Flare, Areetsa, the CFOL? Everyone has a differnt opinion. The trick is to find a healthy balance between what is right and what is wrong.

What you (and I'm not pointing fingers, just using it as an example) might find offensive, someone else wouldn't even think twice about and vice versa.

The answer is simple. Sean decides. It's his site. He keeps MOCpages as safe and enjoyable as possible (through Mark and myself) while still allowing people to have their own opinion and have fun.

Now, here's the part that makes me giggle. The glorious leader of this little group (meaning Flare) has been contacted by many people in regards to this group and his "mission."

Flare has decided in his infinite wisdom that all of those people with YEARS more experince than him are wrong. Not only that, but he didn't allow my first comment through because I pointed out flaws in his grand scheme.
(Oh, and you'd better read this post fast because he'll probably delete it. Can't have anyone disagreeing with him now can we?)

Of course, this IS Flare's group and he has the right to do what he wants...

The long and short of this is who decides what's right and who should be exiled from the site? Sean. If Sean doesn't react to something that someone is offended by it's because he doesn't see any problem with it (it's HIS site remember?) Now, with the moc that started this group, Sean DID see a problem with it and took action.

You ask where the MOCpages team is? We're here keeping this site running. While you are of course entitled to your opinion of what's right and wrong, so is everyone else.

As for your request to be part of the team... There's a very good reason that there's only 3 of us. Ever hear the expression "too many cooks spoil the broth?" We've had numerous offers from people to join "the team." We keep things running as smoothly as we do because we don't have 40 different people giving their opinion and pulling things in 40 different directions. If there's a problem that needs to be solved, Mark and/or I bring it to the other's attention. We all give our thoughts and SEAN is the one who decides the outcome.

Thank you for wanting to make MOCpages better but remember, what you perceive as being better for you, may not be the same for someone else.

Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 8:04 pm
Quoting Chris Phipson

See now, here's the problem that we run in to...

Who decides what is grounds for removal? You, Flare, Areetsa, the CFOL? Everyone has a differnt opinion. The trick is to find a healthy balance between what is right and what is wrong.

What you (and I'm not pointing fingers, just using it as an example) might find offensive, someone else wouldn't even think twice about and vice versa.

The answer is simple. Sean decides. It's his site. He keeps MOCpages as safe and enjoyable as possible (through Mark and myself) while still allowing people to have their own opinion and have fun.

Now, here's the part that makes me giggle. The glorious leader of this little group (meaning Flare) has been contacted by many people in regards to this group and his "mission."

Flare has decided in his infinite wisdom that all of those people with YEARS more experince than him are wrong. Not only that, but he didn't allow my first comment through because I pointed out flaws in his grand scheme.
(Oh, and you'd better read this post fast because he'll probably delete it. Can't have anyone disagreeing with him now can we?)

Of course, this IS Flare's group and he has the right to do what he wants...

The long and short of this is who decides what's right and who should be exiled from the site? Sean. If Sean doesn't react to something that someone is offended by it's because he doesn't see any problem with it (it's HIS site remember?) Now, with the moc that started this group, Sean DID see a problem with it and took action.

You ask where the MOCpages team is? We're here keeping this site running. While you are of course entitled to your opinion of what's right and wrong, so is everyone else.

As for your request to be part of the team... There's a very good reason that there's only 3 of us. Ever hear the expression "too many cooks spoil the broth?" We've had numerous offers from people to join "the team." We keep things running as smoothly as we do because we don't have 40 different people giving their opinion and pulling things in 40 different directions. If there's a problem that needs to be solved, Mark and/or I bring it to the other's attention. We all give our thoughts and SEAN is the one who decides the outcome.

Thank you for wanting to make MOCpages better but remember, what you perceive as being better for you, may not be the same for someone else.


You misunderstood me, I'm not asking to be part of your "team" I am offering my help, and in return asking for help. I am not "power hungry" like lots of other members. Yes, it is true we all have our own views on what should/should not be moderated, but the majority of members will tell you the same thing I said. Isn't that how Governments work anyways? Majority vote? I just some help with all this. I can't, and shouldn't be doing this on my own. I hear of too many cases of members entering a Banning war against other members, simply because of whose side they are on. That should never happen, and I need help in making sure it Doesn'tT happen.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 8:42 pm
Quoting Michael Qoyawayma

You misunderstood me, I'm not asking to be part of your "team" I am offering my help, and in return asking for help. I am not "power hungry" like lots of other members. Yes, it is true we all have our own views on what should/should not be moderated, but the majority of members will tell you the same thing I said. Isn't that how Governments work anyways? Majority vote? I just some help with all this. I can't, and shouldn't be doing this on my own. I hear of too many cases of members entering a Banning war against other members, simply because of whose side they are on. That should never happen, and I need help in making sure it Doesn'tT happen.


Yes it's true that governments "should" act like that (sadly it's not the case) but (and I say this with no ill intent) MOCpages isn't a democracy. It's Sean's website and what he says goes.

Now, that being said, as for the "kiddies" getting involved in "ban wars" and so on. Really... let em. We're not going to ban anyone from the site that doesn't deserve it (again, using Sean's criteria for what's deserving). If they want to be little punks and try to act cool, let em. Easiest thing to do is simply NOT give them what they're looking for. Attention.

Good luck. If you find anything that DOES require our attention, don't hesitate to let us know.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 8:59 pm
Quoting Chris Phipson

Yes it's true that governments "should" act like that (sadly it's not the case) but (and I say this with no ill intent) MOCpages isn't a democracy. It's Sean's website and what he says goes.

Now, that being said, as for the "kiddies" getting involved in "ban wars" and so on. Really... let em. We're not going to ban anyone from the site that doesn't deserve it (again, using Sean's criteria for what's deserving). If they want to be little punks and try to act cool, let em. Easiest thing to do is simply NOT give them what they're looking for. Attention.

Good luck. If you find anything that DOES require our attention, don't hesitate to let us know.


Are you also aware that when I mentioned the Banning wars, I was also refering to innocent members being caught in the crosshairs, simply because they are friends with one of the other members? Are you still okay with that?
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 9:03 pm
Quoting Michael Qoyawayma

Are you also aware that when I mentioned the Banning wars, I was also refering to innocent members being caught in the crosshairs, simply because they are friends with one of the other members? Are you still okay with that?


I'm not sure I understand the question. When you're talking about "banning wars" do you mean from a group or from MOCpages as a whole?

Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 9:08 pm
Quoting Chris Phipson

I'm not sure I understand the question. When you're talking about "banning wars" do you mean from a group or from MOCpages as a whole?

From groups, multiple grouple that they love, all because they are friends of the other members. It also seems that you guys find the idea or act of fighting members amusing, I don't know about you, but that sounds aweful sadistic to me. Just sayin.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 9:14 pm
Quoting Chris Phipson

All this talk about offending people and you go and drop something like THAT? I take HUGE offence to what you just said. "At least ONE Mod and Admin?"

Hahaha part of this is humor as you know being a master at it and then part of this is serious. You yourself admitted to putting stuff on MOCpages being adult oriented and thus non Kid friendly.
- http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/168493
- http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/204779
- http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/140857
Then from Kelso.
- http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/59860
- http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/86587
Being just a few. You can therefore see my angle on that.

Quoting Chris Phipson
Wow... really? Do you have any CLUE how much I do for this site? Do you know how many countless hours I spend making sure that YOU have a site that you can enjoy? Do you know how much I put in to pulling the community together with events, contests and all the rest? Did you even THINK before you typed that?

Chris what you Kelso,and Sean do for this site (and therefore the rest of the community) is incredible. I don't understand how much time it takes having never run something this big. Besides that you have a job and creations of your own. Not sure where you get the time. However I do want to thank you for the work you do and if I came out sounding prideful and downright un-thankful I AM SORRY! It was not my attention and I hope that you will forgive me.

Quoting Chris Phipson
And how do you know that I don't AGREE with what's going on here? You don't. You just assume that because there's no comment from me when you happen to show up that I'm against it. For the record, my comment is waiting for Flare to approve it. I used the "R" word (let's see if he lets it through).

Oh not at all! I would trust Sean's judgment enough to let a racist onto this kid oriented site? I hate Racism I see so much of it on the soccer field that I come accustomed to it. But I hate it all the more.

Chris you seem a little annoyed with me at this point so I am just going to sit down now. I do apologize for thus offending you. And thanks for what you do for the community.

Blake




Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 9:31 pm
Quoting Michael Qoyawayma
It also seems that you guys find the idea or act of fighting members amusing, I don't know about you, but that sounds aweful sadistic to me. Just sayin.


Thank you for jumping to conclusions about me. That really means a lot. Of course that's why I got in to law enforcement... because I find other people's suffering amusing. Nice.

Quoting Michael Qoyawayma
From groups, multiple grouple that they love, all because they are friends of the other members.


As much as we'd like to be able to babysit every person on mocpages, it's just not possible. People are going to disagree, it's human nature and there's nothing that we (or anyone, including you) can do about it.

If someone is banned from a group, they should simply go find another group. It's that simple. If someone doesn't agree with your opinion, don't talk to that person. (again, not pointing at you here, just speaking in general).

Even if we didn't have the groups available, someone would find a way to cause trouble. There's plenty of people out there for whom causing trouble is something that gives them great joy. There's nothing that can be done about this. Not here on MOCpages, not on the internet, not in the world.

If you feel the need to involve yourself in every flame war that erupts then you have every right to do so. We don't have time (again, not being mean, just stating fact) to do that. Flame wars and banning wars are just an excuse for little people to try to make themselves feel important.

My advice, if someone's not welcome in a group... find another group. There's hundreds here to choose from and I'm sure they'll be able to find one that accepts them for who they are.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 9:36 pm
Quoting Chris Phipson

Thank you for jumping to conclusions about me. That really means a lot. Of course that's why I got in to law enforcement... because I find other people's suffering amusing. Nice.

Quoting Michael Qoyawayma
From groups, multiple grouple that they love, all because they are friends of the other members.


As much as we'd like to be able to babysit every person on mocpages, it's just not possible. People are going to disagree, it's human nature and there's nothing that we (or anyone, including you) can do about it.

If someone is banned from a group, they should simply go find another group. It's that simple. If someone doesn't agree with your opinion, don't talk to that person. (again, not pointing at you here, just speaking in general).

Even if we didn't have the groups available, someone would find a way to cause trouble. There's plenty of people out there for whom causing trouble is something that gives them great joy. There's nothing that can be done about this. Not here on MOCpages, not on the internet, not in the world.

If you feel the need to involve yourself in every flame war that erupts then you have every right to do so. We don't have time (again, not being mean, just stating fact) to do that. Flame wars and banning wars are just an excuse for little people to try to make themselves feel important.

My advice, if someone's not welcome in a group... find another group. There's hundreds here to choose from and I'm sure they'll be able to find one that accepts them for who they are.


I was just making a statement, as I'm sure you would say when you said you thought I wanted to join the "team". I too am interested in law enforcement, so don't get what I am saying wrong. I just feel that as a guy who is interested in law enforcement, I should do as much as I can to help keep the peace where ever I am, as I would expect from anyone else who embraces peaceful nature. Just saying. I managed to help several people resolve several fights, and they now consider me a friend. I don't like being told that things simply "cannot be done", I try my best and try to get as much help as I can, which is what I am doing here.

Don't get me wrong, I am thankful for what all of you have done for us on the pages. I appreciate that it is even here in the first place. I just think moderation could be improved upon, just my personal opinion.
Permalink
| August 20, 2010, 11:06 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Blake Baer
Good to see that the at least one Mod and Admin have a solid head on their shoulders.


Although this matter has already been argued upon I would also like to restate that we do have two very good Mods and one very good Admin both with very good heads on their shoulders...
Permalink
| August 21, 2010, 12:50 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Chris Phipson
Flare has decided in his infinite wisdom that all of those people with YEARS more experince than him are wrong. Not only that, but he didn't allow my first comment through because I pointed out flaws in his grand scheme.
(Oh, and you'd better read this post fast because he'll probably delete it. Can't have anyone disagreeing with him now can we?)

Of course, this IS Flare's group and he has the right to do what he wants...


Whoa whoa WHOA Chris.... slow down for a sec... I have approved every comment coming through. If it didn't get through then something else must have happened. Please do not make rushed assumptions like that! I swear I have let every single comment that has approached me come through...

EDIT: I would like to add that I haven't deleted any post in this group that hasn't been off-topic... Just because I'm not active doesn't mean I didn't approve of your comment! I respect you very much Chris...
Permalink
| August 21, 2010, 12:52 am
 Group admin 
I would like to add that I think the petition is pretty much a worthless cause. The Mods and Admins are taking care of this perfectly so no need for a petition... I believe the group should stay though.
Permalink
| August 21, 2010, 12:56 am
Could this also apply to the CFOL calling Non-Christians, "slaves of Satan" "devil worshippers" among other things?

I, for one, fail to see how this is better than racism or anti-semitism.
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 12:40 pm
Have you banned that monteryjack guy yet? with his dumbledore mocs?
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 12:46 pm
Quoting Juan .
Could this also apply to the CFOL calling Non-Christians, "slaves of Satan" "devil worshippers" among other things?

I, for one, fail to see how this is better than racism or anti-semitism.

Wow not going to lie this does sort of embarrass me being a Christian myself. I joined CFOL for 2 days then because of all the antinonchristian krap I left. Those comments are completely uncalled for. Devil-Worshippers?
Come On!

Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 12:54 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Juan .
Could this also apply to the CFOL calling Non-Christians, "slaves of Satan" "devil worshippers" among other things?

I, for one, fail to see how this is better than racism or anti-semitism.


Juan, we're not here to revive the CFOL flame wars again. Thank you very much.
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 1:04 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Lieutenant Darkstorm
Have you banned that monteryjack guy yet? with his dumbledore mocs?


What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with r@cism and anti-semitism.
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 1:05 pm
Quoting Flare .

What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with r@cism and anti-semitism.
umm yes it dose flare

Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 1:07 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Glenn Streeter
Quoting Flare .

What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with r@cism and anti-semitism.
umm yes it dose flare


Can you give me a link?
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 1:10 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Glenn Streeter
Quoting Flare .

Juan, we're not here to revive the CFOL flame wars again. Thank you very much.
yes but its just as bad


It is a completely different subject though.
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 1:10 pm
Quoting Flare .

Can you give me a link?
no but mark or chris can tell you more im only gonna say that it was wrong

Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 1:13 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Blake Baer
Wow not going to lie this does sort of embarrass me being a Christian myself. I joined CFOL for 2 days then because of all the antinonchristian krap I left. Those comments are completely uncalled for. Devil-Worshippers?
Come On!


Thankfully the CFOL group is gone... right?
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 1:21 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Glenn Streeter
Quoting Flare .

Can you give me a link?
no but mark or chris can tell you more im only gonna say that it was wrong


Calm down, calm down and turn your shift button on. I've found the MOCs and alerted Sean and Mark of their presence.
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 1:23 pm
Quoting Flare .

Calm down, calm down and turn your shift button on. I've found the MOCs and alerted Sean and Mark of their presence.
ok thanks

Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 1:25 pm
Quoting Flare .

Juan, we're not here to revive the CFOL flame wars again. Thank you very much.

Regardless of that, it would still be considered a form of discrimination, and an outright attack to another person's beliefs, which if I recall correctly is the reason this group was made.
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 1:28 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Juan .
Regardless of that, it would still be considered a form of discrimination, and an outright attack to another person's beliefs, which if I recall correctly is the reason this group was made.


Aha, I see your point. I think that would fit under religious slurring. Thank you Juan.
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 1:32 pm
Quoting Flare .

Thankfully the CFOL group is gone... right?


Twue dat! Fortunately I have found other more "mature" Christian Groups. Thankful indeed.
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 2:02 pm
Quoting Space Gypsy !!!
I agree with some points Dan but...
lego is generally a children's hobby and if adults decide to add MOCs about inuendo or racism they should do it on their own sites or other forums.

First thing "Lego is a children's hobby", is not necessary correct. Trains sets and modelling are other hobbies, not just for children but adults also. So you can't categorize Lego that way. secondly I don't have any problems with innuendos as it's just a bit of fun, but defiantly draw the line at racism. MOCpages was created for people to share their models, weather people show off or have a bit of fun is fine. Racism has no place on MOCpages and should be strictly forbidden.
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 2:21 pm
Quoting Lee Hardwick
First thing "Lego is a children's hobby", is not necessary correct. Trains sets and modelling are other hobbies, not just for children but adults also. So you can't categorize Lego that way. secondly I don't have any problems with innuendos as it's just a bit of fun, but defiantly draw the line at racism. MOCpages was created for people to share their models, weather people show off or have a bit of fun is fine. Racism has no place on MOCpages and should be strictly forbidden.

Good call. Some stats say up to 10% of the community are AFOLs. So it is not a strictly kids toy.
Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 3:07 pm
Quoting Space Gypsy !!!
I agree with some points Dan but...
lego is generally a children's hobby and if adults decide to add MOCs about inuendo or racism they should do it on their own sites or other forums.

No they shouldn't be posting racist comments anywhere!

Permalink
| August 22, 2010, 3:08 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Lee Hardwick
First thing "Lego is a children's hobby", is not necessary correct. Trains sets and modelling are other hobbies, not just for children but adults also. So you can't categorize Lego that way. secondly I don't have any problems with innuendos as it's just a bit of fun, but defiantly draw the line at racism. MOCpages was created for people to share their models, weather people show off or have a bit of fun is fine. Racism has no place on MOCpages and should be strictly forbidden.


I am actually quite disappointed that there is nothing in the MOCpages rules about r@cism...
Permalink
| August 23, 2010, 2:17 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Flare .
I am actually quite disappointed that there is nothing in the MOCpages rules about r@cism...

It's been highlighted in yellow for years, http://www.mocpages.com/about/use.php . "You may not submit content that is illegal, obscene, insulting, threatening, harrasing, defamatory, invasive of privacy, infringing of intellectual property rights, or injurious to anyone. "
Permalink
| August 23, 2010, 2:38 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Sean Kenney
It's been highlighted in yellow for years, http://www.mocpages.com/about/use.php . "You may not submit content that is illegal, obscene, insulting, threatening, harrasing, defamatory, invasive of privacy, infringing of intellectual property rights, or injurious to anyone. "


Not to sound obnoxious, but none of those are specifically mentioning r@cism... I don't mean to sound like I'm smarter than you or anything, but maybe mentioning that specifically might prevent any more problems of this sort... or maybe it won't. You know much more about this sort of stuff than I do.
Permalink
| August 23, 2010, 4:00 am
Quoting Flare .

Not to sound obnoxious, but none of those are specifically mentioning r@cism... I don't mean to sound like I'm smarter than you or anything, but maybe mentioning that specifically might prevent any more problems of this sort... or maybe it won't. You know much more about this sort of stuff than I do.


I'm guessing "insulting" covers racism. But their is always going to be so much grey area (can I say grey?)
I found a Moc titled "1453 The Fall of Constantinople" to be utterly offensive to the point of screaming, but I simply commented my distaste, because, likely, it is only offensive to other Greeks. Like I say, grey areas...
Permalink
| August 23, 2010, 11:33 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Flare .
Not to sound obnoxious, but none of those are specifically mentioning r@cism... I don't mean to sound like I'm smarter than you or anything, but maybe mentioning that specifically might prevent any more problems of this sort... or maybe it won't. You know much more about this sort of stuff than I do.

The simpler the rules, the more likely people are going to read them and understand them. "Don't be mean" is pretty straightforward. It's silly to be redundant and list out all the things that people shouldn't be doing when they're clearly covered by these terms.
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:14 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Sean Kenney
The simpler the rules, the more likely people are going to read them and understand them. "Don't be mean" is pretty straightforward. It's silly to be redundant and list out all the things that people shouldn't be doing when they're clearly covered by these terms.


Yes sir, I get your point.
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 1:01 am
Well, I guess my full feelings on the matter shouldn't be posted for everyone to read so I'll just keep this short...

I'm not really sure why this group is still up in the first place - Gio's MOC has been deleted (without an ounce of whining on his part, I might add). So.... mission accomplished, wouldn't it seem? Yet...here we are.
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 10:10 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Matt David
I'm not really sure why this group is still up in the first place - Gio's MOC has been deleted (without an ounce of whining on his part, I might add). So.... mission accomplished, wouldn't it seem? Yet...here we are.

At first I thought it might be worth it to delete it, but I have pros and cons for deleting it AND for keeping it around, so I am just going to keep it and eventually see what Mr. Kenney thinks.

Quoting Matt David
I already have. I've stated that I do not want to bring this drama back to the MOC-O's, and I've apologized for my brash comment earlier. If you'd like to talk about it, I've already posted in your group.


I don't appreciate those comments, I really have not done this for popularity and attention.
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 11:51 am
Quoting Flare .
At first I thought it might be worth it to delete it, but I have pros and cons for deleting it AND for keeping it around, so I am just going to keep it and eventually see what Mr. Kenney thinks.

Quoting Matt David
I already have. I've stated that I do not want to bring this drama back to the MOC-O's, and I've apologized for my brash comment earlier. If you'd like to talk about it, I've already posted in your group.



I don't appreciate those comments, I really have not done this for popularity and attention.

What has happened?
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 11:57 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Arthur Floren
What has happened?


Doesn't really matter Arthur. If you really want to know, go look in the MO group
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:03 pm
Quoting Flare .
At first I thought it might be worth it to delete it, but I have pros and cons for deleting it AND for keeping it around, so I am just going to keep it and eventually see what Mr. Kenney thinks.

I don't appreciate those comments, I really have not done this for popularity and attention.


And that's fair. It was perhaps unjust of me to imply that you were seeking attention. It didn't come from any personal grievances I have with you, just a perception of the situation. It seemed that the formation of this group and getting the admin involved were all a bit overly dramatic. Although, If you really feel as strongly about it as you say you do, it is, perhaps, understandable.

Still, it is regrettable, though, because of the drama it has stirred up, and the insinuations made against Gio that he has anti-semitical beliefs. That charge is not only flase, but it can also be very damaging and should not be taken lightly.

My point is, the whole messy situation is undoubtedly regrettable, with dips in judgment from all those involved (myself included), and the sooner it's over, the better it is for the community.

Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:03 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Matt David

And that's fair. It was perhaps unjust of me to imply that you were seeking attention. It didn't come from any personal grievances I have with you, just a perception of the situation. It seemed that the formation of this group and getting the admin involved were all a bit overly dramatic. Although, If you really feel as strongly about it as you say you do, it is, perhaps, understandable.

Still, it is regrettable, though, because of the drama it has stirred up, and the insinuations made against Gio that he has anti-semitical beliefs. That charge is not only flase, but it can also be very damaging and should not be taken lightly.

My point is, the whole messy situation is undoubtedly regrettable, with dips in judgment from all those involved (myself included), and the sooner it's over, the better it is for the community.


So then you believe that deleting the group would be the best course of action?
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:11 pm
Quoting Flare .

So then you believe that deleting the group would be the best course of action?

I'd think so, as well as every comment elsewhere that pertains to what went down XD

Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:15 pm
Quoting Flare .

So then you believe that deleting the group would be the best course of action?


As the questionable MOC has been deleted, and we all would rather it just be over - yes, I think that would be the best idea.

Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:19 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Chuke Lapman
I'd think so, as well as every comment elsewhere that pertains to what went down XD

Aha OK.
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:19 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Matt David
Quoting Flare .

So then you believe that deleting the group would be the best course of action?


As the questionable MOC has been deleted, and we all would rather it just be over - yes, I think that would be the best idea.


OK, I will do so after asking Mr. Kenney's permission.
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:19 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Sean Kenney


Mr. Kenney,

As our problem has been solved and the violating MOC has been deleted, would it be OK with you if I could delete the group?

Thanks, Flare
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:20 pm
Do you really need his permission? Is permission required?
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:22 pm
Hey Flare, you wanted to know why I gave you the link to that MOC: You want MOCpages to be a family-friendly side. This MOC depicts an adult watching a 12 or 13 year old boy (I don't know your age) getting killed by a burger machine. It's not racist, but violent and perverted.
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:30 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Chuke Lapman
Do you really need his permission? Is permission required?


No, but I'm just trying to be respectful. Have you read his topic?
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:47 pm
Erm,What's going on?
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:48 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Louis K.
Hey Flare, you wanted to know why I gave you the link to that MOC: You want MOCpages to be a family-friendly side. This MOC depicts an adult watching a 12 or 13 year old boy (I don't know your age) getting killed by a burger machine. It's not rcist, but violent and pervrted.


If you want, you can go to "MOCpages Advice" and see if Mark or Chris deem it worthy of deletion. I agree it is sort of sick though.
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:51 pm
Quoting Flare .

So then you believe that deleting the group would be the best course of action?

It's like seeing a curse word written on the 1st grade playground, you don't start telling all the little kids who'll make a big deal out of it.You go to the teachers and tell them. They'll handle it.
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 12:54 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Jake H.
It's like seeing a curse word written on the 1st grade playground, you don't start telling all the little kids who'll make a big deal out of it.You go to the teachers and tell them. They'll handle it.


Right...
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 2:27 pm
Quoting Louis K.
Hey Flare, you wanted to know why I gave you the link to that MOC: You want MOCpages to be a family-friendly side. This MOC depicts an adult watching a 12 or 13 year old boy (I don't know your age) getting killed by a burger machine.

Hmmm your point may have gotten through better if you had made it to me directly.
From here, I can only hear clucking sounds so I can't understand it wery well...
Permalink
| August 24, 2010, 4:38 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Flare .
would it be OK with you if I could delete the group?

Why would anyone ever delete a group? What does that even mean? That's like trying to delete a birthday party. The minute someone else joins a group, it's just as much theirs as it is yours. If you don't want to be in the group you can leave, but t that doesn't mean other people might not want to be here.
Permalink
| August 25, 2010, 12:41 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Yuri Fassio
Hmmm your point may have gotten through better if you had made it to me directly.
From here, I can only hear clucking sounds so I can't understand it wery well...


It is sort of sick though XP
Permalink
| August 25, 2010, 1:17 am
Quoting Flare .

It is sort of sick though XP

More like "graphic" :) (and I know you liked it)
What I mean is, if Louis had a problem with it, he could have simply commented, slap in a 0, and told me what and why he didn't like it.
I'm all for that, and I might have considered his points.
Instead, he said nothing and ran looking for backup, and you know what this makes him.
Permalink
| August 25, 2010, 8:55 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Yuri Fassio
More like "graphic" :) (and I know you liked it)

What do you mean I liked it? How would I enjoy watching my sigfig die for the 4.5th time (turning into Yoda didn't count)!?

Quoting Yuri Fassio
Instead, he said nothing and ran looking for backup, and you know what this makes him.

Erm... A runner backing-up?

Permalink
| August 25, 2010, 9:46 am
Quoting Flare .
Erm... A runner backing-up?

Hahaha!

(btw, I meant you enjoied the MOC, not being minced. Should I add something like "no minifig was injured in the making of this MOC"? lol)
Permalink
| August 25, 2010, 10:08 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Yuri Fassio
Hahaha!

(btw, I meant you enjoied the MOC, not being minced. Should I add something like "no minifig was injured in the making of this MOC"? lol)


Yeah you should XD
Permalink
| August 25, 2010, 10:42 am
Quoting Yuri Fassio
Quoting Louis K.
Hey Flare, you wanted to know why I gave you the link to that MOC: You want MOCpages to be a family-friendly side. This MOC depicts an adult watching a 12 or 13 year old boy (I don't know your age) getting killed by a burger machine.

Hmmm your point may have gotten through better if you had made it to me directly.
From here, I can only hear clucking sounds so I can't understand it wery well...

Yeah, I see your point. I basically just wanted to show it to Flare.Well, you're probably right :)
Permalink
| August 25, 2010, 12:14 pm
Quoting Louis K.
Yeah, I see your point. I basically just wanted to show it to Flare.Well, you're probably right :)

No hard feelings. If anyone asks me, I'll tell them we're OK.
Permalink
| August 25, 2010, 6:44 pm
Would a group called "Only for christians" be considered racist? If so...http://www.mocpages.com/group.php/2702 I'm sorry if it isn't. I just wanted to know.
Permalink
| October 10, 2010, 10:10 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Minifig Maniac
Would a group called "Only for christians" be considered racist? If so...http://www.mocpages.com/group.php/2702 I'm sorry if it isn't. I just wanted to know.

No.
Permalink
| October 11, 2010, 9:10 am
Hey Chris,I read your comment about Giovanni and I agree,but could you tell him to put his moc "hooter shooter" on parental guidance suggested.
-Brandon
Permalink
| March 25, 2012, 9:02 pm
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