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Great American War Treaty Thread
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 Group moderator 
Alright, well, here is sort of our position right now:

1. The PCU may at no time have an air force greater than 150 aircraft, and no stealth of any kind.
2. No more than 100 tanks may be in service at any time, with no HAT-1s allowed.
3. A standing army of no more than 10,000 men at any time.
4. Only 10 ships of no more than 11,000 short tons disp. may be maintained. Up to 50 coastal patrol craft may be operated.
5. The PCU will retain only Washington, Oregon, and California.
6. The military personnel and equipment of all former states and Mexican territories will be returned.
7. No weapons systems above SAM level can be pursued at any time in the future.

Not exactly Wilson's Fourteen Points, I'm more simple minded. I call this Ultra's Seven Points.

We haven't much discussed this with Will, and we might continue war with the ACU for their treachery.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:12 pm
@Ultra's terms: /LOLface. That's the most BS thing I've ever read in the history of the Three Groups.

My Terms:

All troops will leave the battlefield.

All POWs and stolen equipment will be returned.

Territories will go back to how they were before the Cease-Fire.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:15 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Alright, well, here is sort of our position right now:

1. The PCU may at no time have an air force greater than 150 aircraft, and no stealth of any kind.
2. No more than 100 tanks may be in service at any time, with no HAT-1s allowed.
3. A standing army of no more than 10,000 men at any time.
4. Only 10 ships of no more than 11,000 short tons disp. may be maintained. Up to 50 coastal patrol craft may be operated.
5. The PCU will retain only Washington, Oregon, and California.
6. The military personnel and equipment of all former states and Mexican territories will be returned.
7. No weapons systems above SAM level can be pursued at any time in the future.

Not exactly Wilson's Fourteen Points, I'm more simple minded. I call this Ultra's Seven Points.

We haven't much discussed this with Will, and we might continue war with the ACU for their treachery.

Oh look, it's the treaty of versailles!

My terms.

1- Oppression, discrimination and/or "counseling" of gays is ended.

2- Oppression and discrimination of Muslims is ended.

3- Religion and state are entirely separated. The government is avowedly secular and has no official religion.

4- Axis troops occupy the WC for one month.

5- Axis reduced aircraft numbers to 150.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:18 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
@Ultra's terms: /LOLface. That's the most BS thing I've ever read in the history of the Three Groups.

My Terms:

All troops will leave the battlefield.

All POWs and stolen equipment will be returned.

Territories will go back to how they were before the Cease-Fire.

Nope. No go. You'll just start this all over again.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:19 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Nope. No go. You'll just start this all over again.

You're the one who's started off both land wars, so you need to cool your jets, child.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:20 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
You're the one who's started off both land wars, so you need to cool your jets, child.

You're the one who started the war. End of story in my book.

Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
Blather

You can stay out of this, you're not even that involved.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:21 pm
 Group moderator 
How about this:

1. The construction of very large parallel walls on the PCU-WC-Alaska borders with a three mile neutral zone in between (borders as of the conclusion of the Second Civil War). Why? Axis forces have not been pushed back further than the Cascade mountains, and haven't been for a while.
2. Midway, Wake, and other such island bases are given to Byzantium or some other neutral nation far away from the war so no one can use them.
3. Hawaii becomes international grounds, to be used by all nations.
4. Whatever military sanctions apply to the PCU for starting the first war, the same shall apply to the WC for starting the second.

Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:21 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

4. Whatever military sanctions apply to the PCU for starting the first war, the same shall apply to the WC for starting the second.

There has only been one war. A cease-fire is never an end.

Except we're trying to work toward one, this time.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:24 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
You're the one who started the war. End of story in my book.

You're the one who expanded it into the land war, I had no intention of doing so, and I have no intention of continuing the bloodshed after this war.

As for Awe's plan, I was already going to do so.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:24 pm
I demand compensation from Nick for his attacks on Jamaica. I demand 25 million pounds for the property damage and the loss of life. I will also return the bodies of your deceased.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:24 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
As for Awe's plan, I was already going to do so.

I'm done here, I'm perfectly willing to take you entirely. Isn't this preferable? At least you will exist.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:27 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
There has only been one war. A cease-fire is never an end.

Except we're trying to work toward one, this time.


A ceasefire works until an official peace is reached, such as WWI. Now, had you done what I would have done with a potentially dangerous neighbor and just built a big wall on your border, something of that would have been worked out.

Which is exactly the point of my terms, it equalizes things out and removes many of the factors that led to this in the first place. No one gets Versailles Treaty treatment, we all know what that leads to. This is about making peace last, not humiliating the enemy.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:28 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
I'm done here, I'm perfectly willing to take you entirely. Isn't this preferable? At least you will exist.

Bring it on, my child. The PCU and China await whatever measly attempt at an "assault" you try to throw at the Murus Wall v.2
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:29 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
Bring it on, my child. The PCU and China await whatever measly attempt at an "assault" you try to throw at the Murus Wall v.2

Very well.

Quoting Evan Melick
However, what about granting Hawaii and all Pacific islands owned by participating powers independence as a free , forever neutral federal nation, with a mutual guarantee of independence from all involved?

Unacceptable. The Pacific has long been declared territorially by the Americas in this group.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:30 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton

[puts CM hat on]
It will take a while for you to build a wall, and in your current positions it will take at least a month game time to make your wall from Canada to Mexico. But that's only if every single soldier pitched in and all your enemies rolled over and died.

So it will take even longer with the constant bombing and advances.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:32 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .

Unacceptable. The Pacific has long been declared territorially by the Americas in this group.


You're unacceptable.

Bad comebacks aside, if you want peace, be prepared to sacrifice something. If we settle this here and now, you can make a comeback on the international scene. If you continue this war, and even if you do win fully (unlikely), you're finished as a military power for a very long time.

So, you can either bow your head like the rest of us are ready to and accept a compromise, or continue on with the same attitude that caused the 4th Crusade.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:34 pm
The CDC is willing to cease all offensive military operations against Axis forces (PCU, China, ACU, Egypt) for (at least) 3 months on these terms:
Axis:
-Destruction (or sale to a nuetral nation) of all CDC-built F-42s (and their plans).
-Removal of all military forces east of the Rocky Mountains, with a 3 mile Demilitarized Zone between PCU and WC borders. Border defenses are allowed if they do not cross the clearly marked DMZ.
-Removal of all import tarrifs on Allied goods (we did "win" this conflict).
-Handover of the entire Yucatan Peninsula to the CDC (the ACU will be granted the rights to construct a joint Navy/Air Force base with the CDC in the Laguna de Terminos).
-Handover of $15,000,000,000 in aid to the Western Confederation, Commonwealth, and Brazil (to help restore infrastructural damage in the WC and Jamaica, and repair the Panama Canal).
-The PCU military may not contain, at any one point, more than 4 Air Craft Carriers, and/or 150 Combat Aircraft.
Allies:
-Removal of all military forces from British Colombia.
-Removal of all offensive naval forces from the Pacific Ocean (in international waters).
Mutual
-Allowance of international air and sea traffic (regardless of destination) through Pacifica Ocean sea and air lanes.
-Hawaii, Midway, and Wake are gaurrenteed independence until the outbreak of another World War.
-No nation may begin rearming for 3 months (to insure that economies and civilians are made the highest priority).
-All civilians injured by war recieve medical attention (paid for by their government, or aid).
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:39 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
The Allies' advance is currently running out of steam against the Axis defense in the mountains. Eventually, Awe will be able to pump so many Chinese and Indonesian bodies into combat that the exhausted Allied troops will be easily swept aside in the face of a major Axis assault.


Troops he can't get in across the Pacific. We'll see about the other.

Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:45 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting -> avalella


I agree on all of these but removal of Allied troops from British Columbia. What about the rest of the PCU? Is it to be occupied?

Quoting Ultramarine .

Troops he can't get in across the Pacific. We'll see about the other.


Are you willing to bet the decent outcome you could have here on that belief?
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:46 pm
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

I agree on all of these but removal of Allied troops from British Columbia. What about the rest of the PCU? Is it to be occupied?

The WC will keep all PCU land east of the Rockies (unless another border is agreed upon by the PCU and WC, in a non-flaming fashion, preferrably via FM), for now. Also, what do you guys think of a larger DMZ, with its own nuetral government?
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:54 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting -> avalella
The WC will keep all PCU land east of the Rockies (unless another border is agreed upon by the PCU and WC, in a non-flaming fashion, preferrably via FM), for now. Also, what do you guys think of a larger DMZ, with its own nuetral government?


There is no PCU land east of the Rockies, except Oklahoma, which was taken long ago. I belief you're talking about the Cascades. Now that might change things... However, it's Nick's choice here. I can still agree on it, he may not.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:56 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
Well, from what I've gathered from the recent CR's, if the current patern continues, you won't have much of a fleet left to control the Pacific. Now I'm not sure whether you still control Midway island, but I doubt you'll be able to maintain absolute control of the Pacific Ocean much longer, if you still even retain it now.

I've never put all my faith in the ships. They were convenient when Midway was more or less unusable, but they never were the backbone.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:57 pm
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

There is no PCU land east of the Rockies, except Oklahoma, which was taken long ago. I belief you're talking about the Cascades. Now that might change things... However, it's Nick's choice here. I can still agree on it, he may not.

My bad, I did mean the Cascades. Now I g2g to bed, you guys build upon this progress.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 9:58 pm
Quoting -> avalella
this progress.

What progress?

Your treaty just satisfies your demands and definately does not appease anyone else's. I think that both of you guys should be willing to give up land if you want to end the war. Otherwise it's hopeless to even try to reach an agreement. And none of these plans will ever prevent a future war which is bounded to happen again.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 10:01 pm
I think Avalella's Idea will work. I've also got a new proposed map up on my Flickr. (http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/52840060@N08/5607955757/) The Blue is the DMZ.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 10:06 pm
Quoting -> avalella

Acceptable, but I agree with Awe.

Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 10:07 pm
Quoting -> avalella

-Handover of $15,000,000,000 in aid to the Western Confederation, Commonwealth, and Brazil (to help restore infrastructural damage in the WC and Jamaica, and repair the Panama Canal).


How about we try to learn from Versailles?
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 10:07 pm
Quoting Evan Melick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52840060@N08/5607955757/in/contacts/

Just thought I'd link to Brikkr's proposal, although I'd assume most of you are offline. Try and discuss it here if you could, to keep stuff organized.

Sounds like a plan, that map.

I can't talk there though, because I was (needlessly) blocked.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 10:27 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton

Derp-a-Derp, I forgot. Unblocked Nao.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 10:46 pm
 Group moderator 
New proposal.

Territories:
1. I retain Nevada, Baja, and what parts of Hawaii are mine.

Reparations:
1. The PCU will no longer be able to afford as large a navy as they have, the allies will be given 20 Arleigh-Burke destroyers, 20 Los Angeles-class attack submarines, and 3 aircraft carriers with aircraft.
2. $1.5 Billion will be paid to the families of those killed in the mustard attack. Also for the rebuilding of the cities affected.
3. The Ohio-class submarines will be surrendered.

Misc.
1. The PCU may not engage in open warfare except to defend itself for 12 months.
2. Any biological and chemical weapons must be destroyed.
3. All military material, personnel, and vehicles from Idaho, Mexico, Nevada, Oklahoma, British Columbia, and Alberta are to be returned. The PCU wouldn't have room for them anyway.
4. The HAT-1 cannot, at anytime, be maintained by the PCU.
5. Rearmament is ill-advised, and the Pacific will remain closed to Chinese aircraft. Commercial or military.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 11:06 pm
I lol @ Ultra's demands. We're trying to make peace here, not flamewar.
I'm fine with Brikkr's map, and the CDC is willing to gaurrentee the independence of the PCU and ACU under a new mutual defense pact, with the intent of allowing for a very slow rearmament/reorganisation of the PCU/ACU militaries, and provide them with a reason not to rearm so quickly. If agreed upon, I invite any other regional powers to join in on this, to hopefully form some sort of NATO-like alliance.
Permalink
| April 10, 2011, 11:15 pm
The war in New England will go on. The Mississippi must be avenged. Oh yeah, all these ceasefires are too radical.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 12:08 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting -> avalella
I lol @ Ultra's demands. We're trying to make peace here, not flamewar.

It would be peace, the fighting would stop. He started this war, he takes the very short end of the stick. That's just the way it is.

Given how juvenile Nick is, would you expect any different from him to us in reverse situations? Why extend him any courtesy?
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 12:21 am
Here's some of mine
1: unspecified but very large reparations from the Allies re: Astana.

2: Allies either A: destroy all of their ICBMs, with Alenian oversight, or B: agree to having OVB agents being integrated into the firing process, ex. having half the launch keys, (and possibly whatever other countries don't like missile-throwing, but I think we can agree I'm not going to support ICBMing Axis states and the Allies aren't going to support ICBMing Allied states, so things'd stay pretty calm.)

3: cessation of research on high-yield thermobaric weapons.

4: multinational oversight committees keeping an eye on the military activities of the WC, PCU, ACU, EC, Egypt, CDC and whichever other powers may have participated in the American conflict (I haven't included myself there since no Alenian regular troops were involved)

and 5: Allies reducing military forces to match the PCU would be nice too, but we know THAT'LL never happen.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 2:20 am
My terms, or rather incentives:

I will happily trade with everyone once the war ends.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 2:42 am
 Group admin 
I laugh at how there are so many demands. While this may not be an unconditional surrender, I find it funny how the axis has such harsh demands on ultra even though they will be "losing" this war.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 7:26 am
How about as far as Confederation bodies litter, we keep the land, however we do not press on to crush Nick like we were so determined to do.

PCU:
-ACU stays at war
-Allies Keep gained land
-We do not destroy the PCU
-No sanctions are placed on the allies.
-Any attempt to sanction my nation will be defied.
-The families of Portlanders will be paid.
-The families of All EC civilians who suffered
will be paid.
-All PCU POWs will be taken of tours of all the ground zero sights, then released
-All Allied POWs are released, if alive.
-Civilians are allowed to return to the PCU.

ACU:
-POWs help in Mississippi clean up.
-N. and S. Carolina are returned to the EC.
-Maryland is returned to the EC.
-Northern Michigan peninsula is mine.
-POWs exchanged later.
-More to come.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 8:27 am
12 months without fighting? This group won't even be active in twelve months.

Ultra's demands are EXTREMELY optimistic.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 8:58 am
Quoting Will G.

You forgot the part where the rest of the Allies agree not to interfere, should there be any "consequences" involved in Ultra's refusing to face up to his actions.

Here's how it works: you can agree to go back to how things were before this new war started, OR you can go around and around with the Allies demanding ridiculous concessions and the Axis making counter-requirements that the Allies refuse to meet. If you want the PCU to be pretty much helpless, you're going to have to consent to being placed in a similar state yourselves.

Oh, and the "Ultra loses his ICBMs" part isn't negotiable.

Quoting Nick Shelton
12 months without fighting? This group won't even be active in twelve months.

Ultra's demands are EXTREMELY optimistic.

Do you consider the proposals I've made thus far reasonable?

Mainly I need you to second the "no more Allied ICBMs" part.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 9:00 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C


It looks nice to me, but I doubt it's going to happen. Ultra thinks he's won, he's not going to accept anything less than that.

Quoting Matt Hacker
I laugh at how there are so many demands. While this may not be an unconditional surrender, I find it funny how the axis has such harsh demands on ultra even though they will be "losing" this war.


It ain't over yet, we're just ready to stop now.

I urge you all to look at my first set of terms. I think they're more in the way of keeping peace than getting the spoils of war and weakening "the enemy." Do you want a Versailles, or do you want something for real?
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 9:39 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
I urge you all to look at my first set of terms. I think they're more in the way of keeping peace than getting the spoils of war and weakening "the enemy." Do you want a Versailles, or do you want something for real?

Look, this is my outlook.

1. The allies are winning. With three of us in the Pacific now, and some help from a fourth, there isn't anyway you're getting more across the Pacific by air or sea.
2. I can have everything, and negotiations will be immaterial once we win the war. It will be costly, and take longer, but I will have it all. So why should I settle for less than I have now?
3. I don't want you crossing the Pacific, so I will be keeping those islands, since they are my territory whether you or anyone else likes it or not. However, since I have no further quarrels with you, I would be open to joint bases at Midway and/or Wake so we can keep a closer eye on each other.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 12:53 pm
My terms are as follows:

The PCU may have no more than 150 aircraft capable of carrying weapons without modification.

No more than 100 tanks, no more than 10 may be HAT-1s

Standing army of no more than 20,000 soldiers

The PCU Naval vessels may not travel West of Hawaii or South of California without prior approval from the appropriate nation. Ships may be no more than 20,000 tons displacement.

The PCU retains Oregon, Washington, and California. We (the allies) aid in humanitarian efforts to rebuild Portland. We keep Hawaii.

The PCU may not operate or design any weapons systems above SAM level.

THE ALLIES WILL NOT BE PERMITTED TO OPERATE ICBMs.

Allies will not be permitted to station military forces in large numbers within 25 miles of the PCU border. Everyone will be permitted to have defended/armed border stations with no long range weapons. Weapons will be restricted to visual range and may be no larger than an anti-tank missile for both sides.

Standing offer. We're winning and you're outnumbered, so there's no point for us to give up now. The terms are somewhat negotiable, but keep in mind that we don't have any reason to accept outrageous terms, as we're doing well. I think these terms are fair and acceptable.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 1:22 pm
 Group moderator 
Without ICBMs, we're sitting ducks for China. At least with those, we have MAD. I'm keeping hold of them, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to pull the "It's for your own good" card for us Americans.

-Additionally, at no time will the PCU be allowed to allow Chinese aircraft, personnel, vehicles, or anything else in their territory.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 1:30 pm
Quoting Will G.


Sorry for my laughing, but do you really think that John will accept that? You demand several states from him while still in the middle of war with him.

Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 3:43 pm
How about we settle with a cease-fire for now, and continue negotiations in peace, with baby steps. I think the first (and easiest) matter we should settle is Midway, Wake, and Hawaii.
Shall we agree that they stay nuetral?
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 3:45 pm
Areetsa it's kind of funny how you call for the destruction of Allied ballistic missiles. Even though you never fought and you don't call for the end of the PCU attacks on civilians with chemical weapons, which are much worse than thermoberic weapons.

And none of these treaties will stop it from starting up again. So if you want to solve anything both sides are going to need to disarm.

If you guys are going to go at it again orders will be due tonight.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 4:06 pm
Quoting henry wang
Areetsa it's kind of funny how you call for the destruction of Allied ballistic missiles. Even though you never fought and you don't call for the end of the PCU attacks on civilians with chemical weapons, which are much worse than thermoberic weapons.

And none of these treaties will stop it from starting up again. So if you want to solve anything both sides are going to need to disarm.

If you guys are going to go at it again orders will be due tonight.

Could you please mod all the ACU fighting reports I sent you?
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 5:11 pm

Quoting Will G.
ACU:

-N. and S. Carolina are returned to the EC.
-Maryland is returned to the EC.
Can't return what was never yours now can I?

Quoting John Dawn
1) John Dawn
2) Atlantic Union
3) Delaware, Virginia, Maryland, N. Carolina, S. Carolina, and Pennsylvania.
4) Dark Red


Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 5:25 pm
Quoting henry wang
Areetsa it's kind of funny how you call for the destruction of Allied ballistic missiles. Even though you never fought and you don't call for the end of the PCU attacks on civilians with chemical weapons, which are much worse than thermoberic weapons.

Actually, I'm one of the two targets he's used them on. Considering how ready he is to throw them about, I can't say I like the idea of him keeping them.
Oh, and the PCU: different thing entirely. Thing about the ICBMs: they can hit anywhere on the planet, and unless you've got other ICBMs, you can't hit back. I don't consider that sporting.

As for worse: I don't think so. Allegedly his strike on the Japanese caused 200,000 deaths.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 5:30 pm
Quoting Will G.
Could you please mod all the ACU fighting reports I sent you?

Send it to luke, he's your mod.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 5:40 pm
Quoting henry wang
Send it to luke, he's your mod.

Link to his account?
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 5:51 pm
Quoting Will G.
Link to his account?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mango_train/


Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 6:12 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C
As for worse: I don't think so. Allegedly his strike on the Japanese caused 200,000 deaths.

Unless you're willing to broker a START IV, there is no way I'm getting rid of my equalizer should China or Russia get uppity.

Yeah, except I kill civilians instantly, not slowly and torturously.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 6:20 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Unless you're willing to broker a START IV, there is no way I'm getting rid of my equalizer should China or Russia get uppity.

The only one getting uppity here is you.
Quoting Ultramarine .
Yeah, except I kill civilians instantly, not slowly and torturously.

Except all the ones who get caught in the rubble, because they don't count.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 6:24 pm
 Group moderator 
It seems that neither side can make settlements, therefore, one side must have more of an upper hand than an other. We are still open for peace, but it seems the only conditions our enemy will come to is ones unacceptable to us. This is our consensus.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 6:32 pm
 Group admin 
Everyone here involved here clearly thinks that their demands are the only ones that should be met. This is a problem. Since clearly one side is not completely and overwhelmingly defeating their enemy, this is clearly not an unconditional surrender situation. Both sides will have to budge somewhat to get a favorable deal. I think the most reasonable proposal is Brikkr's. His plan is pretty complete and includes all the important points.

Sorry Axis, but I have to lean towards Ultra here in terms of ICBMs. I would be more lenient if it also said that ALL belligerents eliminated their ICBMs, or at least Nick (because he did use SLBMs on Ultra). This seems to be the key issue in this debate so perhaps you should consider one of my two suggestions.

And please Ultra, we all know that you want this war but don't play dumb and expect an enemy that is starting to put up real resistance to accept a Versailles-esque treaty with a bunch of Washington Naval Treaty elements thrown in.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 6:43 pm
Quoting John Dawn

Actually, I am referring to former Southern land. Which you are going to pay dearly for if you want to keep fighting.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 6:57 pm
Quoting Will G.
Actually, I am referring to former Southern land. Which you are going to pay dearly for if you want to keep fighting.

We will work something out via FM.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 7:15 pm
Quoting Matt Hacker
Sorry Axis, but I have to lean towards Ultra here in terms of ICBMs. I would be more lenient if it also said that ALL belligerents eliminated their ICBMs, or at least Nick (because he did use SLBMs on Ultra). This seems to be the key issue in this debate so perhaps you should consider one of my two suggestions.

Then I suppose we're going with integrating me into Ultra's firing process.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 7:16 pm
Quoting John Dawn
We will work something out via FM.

Ravaging my capital and destroying the Mississippi will not be taken lightly...
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 7:21 pm
After feedback on my map, it's been decided that to best fit both sides ideas on the new PCU border as either:
Current lines or Oregon border then south through Nevada in a straight line then it follows the Californian border to Baja.

Vote on your choice. Majority rules unless the Admins decide otherwise.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 8:03 pm
Quoting Will G.
Ravaging my capital and destroying the Mississippi will not be taken lightly...

Neither of which I did so this applies to me how?
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 8:13 pm
Quoting Brikkr
After feedback on my map, it's been decided that to best fit both sides ideas on the new PCU border as either:
Current lines or Oregon border then south through Nevada in a straight line then it follows the Californian border to Baja.

Vote on your choice. Majority rules unless the Admins decide otherwise.

The second one.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 8:32 pm
All ACU military operations are being put on standby.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 9:17 pm
El Presidente is very glad to announce this evening that this evening, the CDC has come to a peaceful agreement with the ACU to end all hostilities between the two nations. The Yucatan Peninsula is now part of the CDC, and will be governed as the single state of Yucatan, which will receive equal representation in Congress. $50 billion in financial aid is being sent to the ACU to help begin recovering from this bloody conflict, and they are invited to build naval, air, and army bases on the Yucatan. All combat operations in this area are halted, and many CDC troops are already being shipped home to parade around Havana and other cities. El Presidente has also reminded his people that, while this conflict has been resolved, there are still Caribbean troops out fighting on another front, but that peace there is also within reach.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 9:47 pm
Quoting Will G.
As of April 11th, 2037, the Eastern Confederation is at peace with the ACU. The conditions of said peace treaty are as follows:
The Eastern Confederation will cease all military operations against the ACU.
The Eastern Confederation will withdraw all soldiers from Southern Michigan.
The Eastern Confederation will pay for all damages done to civilian property.
The ACU will cede the former states of North Carolina, South Carolina the Western portion of Virginia and the Northern Michigan peninsula to the Eastern Confederation.

Quoting -> avalella
El Presidente is very glad to announce this evening that this evening, the CDC has come to a peaceful agreement with the ACU to end all hostilities between the two nations. The Yucatan Peninsula is now part of the CDC, and will be governed as the single state of Yucatan, which will receive equal representation in Congress. $50 billion in financial aid is being sent to the ACU to help begin recovering from this bloody conflict, and they are invited to build naval, air, and army bases on the Yucatan. All combat operations in this area are halted, and many CDC troops are already being shipped home to parade around Havana and other cities. El Presidente has also reminded his people that, while this conflict has been resolved, there are still Caribbean troops out fighting on another front, but that peace there is also within reach.

Confirmed both.


Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 10:02 pm
Quoting -> avalella
El Presidente is very glad to announce this evening that this evening, the CDC has come to a peaceful agreement with the ACU to end all hostilities between the two nations. The Yucatan Peninsula is now part of the CDC, and will be governed as the single state of Yucatan, which will receive equal representation in Congress. $50 billion in financial aid is being sent to the ACU to help begin recovering from this bloody conflict, and they are invited to build naval, air, and army bases on the Yucatan. All combat operations in this area are halted, and many CDC troops are already being shipped home to parade around Havana and other cities. El Presidente has also reminded his people that, while this conflict has been resolved, there are still Caribbean troops out fighting on another front, but that peace there is also within reach.

/EPIC APPLAUSE

I suppose since we are technically still at war, Egypt is now willing to make a peace agreement with the CDC as well. It should be fairly simple, too.
Permalink
| April 11, 2011, 10:05 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Brikkr
After feedback on my map, it's been decided that to best fit both sides ideas on the new PCU border as either:
Current lines or Oregon border then south through Nevada in a straight line then it follows the Californian border to Baja.

Vote on your choice. Majority rules unless the Admins decide otherwise.


Second choice sounds good to me. Idaho was useless anyway. >.>

But we're forgetting one key thing: No matter how much the rest of us take peace, Ultra still won't.

Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 1:12 am
 Group moderator 
Unfortunately, I believe our terms were misunderstood as a 'treaty.' It is instead an ultimatum. Concede or perish, the choice is as simple, cut and dry, and black and white as that.

As I've said before, I will not settle for anything less than I have now, because I could have it all. Call it pride, call it arrogance, I call it common sense. One cannot simply wish away a war that they started. One cannot simply refuse to accept that with war there are consequences. I have never gone to war or committed an act of aggression once without being totally willing to accept the negative consequences of my actions. Have I liked them all? No, of course not. It's just the way it is.

Nick, I'm not buying this "I'm ta policemanz of da world!" and trying to 'stop' me from being 'greedy' when I was only supporting the actions of a third party at the request of a second and had nothing to gain except personal satisfaction from the whole thing. I don't care whether or not you wanted a war on the continent. Your actions directly precipitated the war whether you want to admit it or not. Not only that, you have been a base opponent from the start, and you've continued that way. Executions of prisoners, gas attacks, and untruths throughout have not given much credence to your fingering me as the bad guy here.

Basically, you can exist as outlined by Jack (minus the ICBMs) or we continue the war. Period. BTW, orders were due last night.

Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 3:23 pm
Quoting Ultramarine BTW, orders were due last night.

Good thing I sent in my plans two days ago then. Like you, I won't settle until all of my "needs" are met, but I can and will compromise some of them.

Quoting Ultramarine Blah, blah, blah I'm the best.

No one is buying that I was your base opponent either. I knew the consequences of my actions on Midway, but I hoped for the best. Unfortunately, I didn't expect you to attack me the next day, or I would've prepared for the worst in addition. When the cease-fire, more like a Paper full of Lies, was signed, I began to prepare for the worst again, but you decided to go "LOLOLOLOLOL! i g0t u111!1!1" and attack the government. I won't let it happen again. I won't accept any treaties limiting my ground-pounders or my tank force. If you want it to happen, you better prepare to drive me off the continent.
Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 5:23 pm
Quoting Brikkr
After feedback on my map, it's been decided that to best fit both sides ideas on the new PCU border as either:
Current lines or Oregon border then south through Nevada in a straight line then it follows the Californian border to Baja.


Vote on your choice. Majority rules unless the Admins decide otherwise.

Bro, can you PLEASE unblock me, I got some FMs for you.
Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 5:35 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
Bro, can you PLEASE unblock me, I got some FMs for you.

You ARE unblocked, Bro. /trollface
Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 5:40 pm
Quoting Brikkr
You ARE unblocked, Bro. /trollface

Send me an FM then.
Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 5:42 pm
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
/EPIC APPLAUSE

I suppose since we are technically still at war, Egypt is now willing to make a peace agreement with the CDC as well. It should be fairly simple, too.

I'm willing to make peace with you, as well, however, until this war between Nick and Ultra is resolved on the Midwestern Front, my troops will not be leaving the Americas, nor should yours (if you all want any chance of winning on favorable terms).
Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 5:46 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
Send me an FM then.

It said I couldn't send one because you're blocking me. :|
Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 5:47 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
Send me a FM then.

Done.
Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 5:47 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
No one is buying that I was your base opponent either. I knew the consequences of my actions on Midway, but I hoped for the best.

Bad mistake. Prepare for the worst, and you won't be disappointed.

Quoting Nick Shelton
When the cease-fire, more like a Paper full of Lies, was signed.....I won't let it happen again. I won't accept any treaties limiting my ground-pounders or my tank force. If you want it to happen, you better prepare to drive me off the continent.

We never signed a cease-fire...

Now we understand each other.
Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 6:12 pm
Quoting -> avalella
I'm willing to make peace with you, as well, however, until this war between Nick and Ultra is resolved on the Midwestern Front, my troops will not be leaving the Americas, nor should yours (if you all want any chance of winning on favorable terms).

Indeed.

Our peace should be fairly simple, I suppose. The only thing I can think of that needs to be done is the releasing of tanks and aircraft to you, if you want them back. We don't have many F-42s left, but we have most of the tanks.

Anything in particular you wish of me?
Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 7:38 pm
Quoting Brikkr
Done.

Since you aren't willing to unblock me, you got an email?
Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 8:18 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton

Just fixed it. I had to go to normal Flickr for it to work. Resent your shenanigans.
Permalink
| April 12, 2011, 10:03 pm
Quoting John Dawn

Do you wish for peace?

My terms are as follows:

1. Hostilities ended between the SC and the ACU.

2. POWs from each side returned.

3. Mexico split between us or current lines.

4. All aircraft and long range weaponry banned around a 5 mile DMZ.

5. Fortification of DMZ allowed.

6. Aircraft and ships will be either turned around or shot down. No military planes or navy ships around my land without permission.
Permalink
| April 18, 2011, 11:03 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting CherokeeKly .
I was FMing with Ultra the other day and I think I cam up with some OK terms:


Looks good to me, except there's no way this could have anything to do with Ultra, it's far too lenient.

Permalink
| April 19, 2011, 7:44 pm
Quoting CherokeeKly .
I was FMing with Ultra the other day and I think I cam up with some OK terms:
- All Parties cannot move any units over the amount of 100 men for six weeks
- All Parties cannot move any units over 5000 men for 3 weeks after the first restriction
- WC- Alaska- PCU jointly configure a 30 foot tall wall (2) with a three mile stretch as a DMZ in between like this:
WC
-----
Three Miles
----/-----
PCU
- All parties cannot trade for two weeks

I personally do not wish to spend money on building a wall. A mortar round could easily shoot over a 30ft wall, and it wouldn't do anything for stopping an air raid.

And with my current economical stance, I will not give up my trading. My trade with the southern states and Russia is too valuable to give up, plus I have an order slated for the Baltic Union.

I need to be able to move amounts of men over 100 to return them home from the front.

Your treaty does not mention anything along the lines of borders. I'm keeping the Northern Islands of Hawaii and B.C. I'm doing well right now, and I have no reason to accept terms that don't get me anything.
Permalink
| April 20, 2011, 4:28 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting CherokeeKly .
Return them in amounts of ninety nine :p

Perhaps land should be put in as well.

Nick loses BC to Alaska
Alaska keeps current lands
WC keeps Baja
Nick loses Colorado to WC


The WC always had Colorado, Nick never had it.
Permalink
| April 20, 2011, 8:20 pm
 Group moderator 
Attention ACU:

The Western Confederation and Brazil would like to end this fight with you. We have no quarrel with you, and we'd like to end things amicably.
So, here goes:
-All WC, Guatemalan, Belize, and Brazilian forces agree to withdrawal from Mexico as soon as we can gather our wounded and equipment.
-The establishment of a 15 mile DMZ will be undertaken as agreed upon months ago (though we have decreased the size) along the WC/Mexico border.
-Also, a 10-mile DMZ is to be established along the Guatemalan/Belize/Mexico border.

Look, we pretty well control the Gulf of Mexico, and the way around by air is going to be very costly for you to maintain in fuel and material (that is shot down by Texan/Baja/Brazilian/Belize air forces). It will be difficult to maintain a good logistics system where you cannot take things overland. For myself, I'm not demanding land or anything, I can forget this war if you can. Think about it, because we are actually doing you a favor.

I can't speak for Brazil, they may want more, I don't know. But you either make peace with both or neither of us, that's all I know.

Quoting CherokeeKly .
I was FMing with Ultra the other day and I think I cam up with some OK terms:

I just saw this. Dude, do not attach my name to this, it's insinuating that my intelligence is somewhere around a 15.

We started it, we'll make peace. Third-parties clamoring to create 'acceptable' terms only creates noise and distractions.
Permalink
| April 20, 2011, 11:14 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .

Pretty much the same. Once a combat map is up, we'll check where the new borders are and set them there.

HeyTommakeanewmap.
Permalink
| April 21, 2011, 7:49 am
 Group moderator 
Ok, here goes try number two:

PCU:
-The lines will stay where they are.
-All foreign soldiers will leave PCU and WC territory.
-The PCU will not be allowed to pursue trade with China or base Chinese aircraft/troops in the future.
-The naval and air force portions of the old agreement are now immaterial since the PCU would never be able to afford their operation anyway.
-The HAT-1s may not exceed pre-war numbers in service at any time. However, as the admins warned early on, you will use up a lot of good money on them...
-All military material and personnel from Oklahoma, Idaho, Nevada, and Mexico must be returned in full.


ACU:
-WC territory in Mexico will be returned, but with the establishment of a 50-mile DMZ along our borders, ALL on your side, not ours.

Failure to come to terms will result in resumption of conflict. Erik (Dr. S) has generously agreed to become the new CM, though his reports will be once per week on Sunday. I figure it's better than nothing.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 10:47 pm
I agree to all terms except for the returning of PCU equipment from PCU lands to WC invaders. It won't happen. If you cannot live without them, however, I will fight for them.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 10:51 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Ok, here goes try number two:

-All foreign soldiers will leave PCU and WC territory.
-The PCU will not be allowed to pursue trade with China or base Chinese aircraft/troops in the future.


The Koaxiang Empire finds these terms concerning us acceptable. Although, you'll have a hard time with the returning of weaponry.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 10:51 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
I agree to all terms except for the returning of PCU equipment from PCU lands to WC invaders. It won't happen. If you cannot live without them, however, I will fight for them.

Oklahoma's men & stuff is going back to the EC. Those Mexicans want to go home, and I'm sure the others do to. For Mexico (Baja), Idaho, and Nevada, we have their families, and they are our citizens now. I guess you can keep the material, but the personnel are our citizens now. We'll fight to liberate them, if you want to put it that way.

One more thing, we're requesting the sum of $1.5 Billion for damages due to the gas attack.

This is still pending Alaska and Brazil's say so. They may have additional requirements or requests. If they aren't satisfied, neither am I.

However, I am glad we've come to some sort of give/take thing at last.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 10:54 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
ACU:
-WC territory in Mexico will be returned, but with the establishment of a 50-mile DMZ along our borders, ALL on your side, not ours.

30-miles.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 10:56 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Oklahoma's men & stuff is going back to the EC. Those Mexicans want to go home, and I'm sure the others do to. For Mexico (Baja), Idaho, and Nevada, we have their families, and they are our citizens now. I guess you can keep the material, but the personnel are our citizens now. We'll fight to liberate them, if you want to put it that way.

This is still pending Alaska and Brazil's say so. They may have additional requirements or requests. If they aren't satisfied, neither am I.

However, I am glad we've come to some sort of give/take thing at last.

How about you give me the families? I'll even fly the transports over and pick them up, and do all the work.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 10:57 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
This is still pending Alaska and Brazil's say so. They may have additional requirements or requests. If they aren't satisfied, neither am I.

However, I am glad we've come to some sort of give/take thing at last.


Alaska and Brazil can feel free to mind their own business, they're not threats on their own. Alaska? Disregarding those Blackfish, not a major enemy. Brazil? Cut a puppet's strings, and the puppet falls. This is about you, Nick, and me, when it comes down to it.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 10:57 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

Alaska and Brazil can feel free to mind their own business, they're not threats on their own. Alaska? Disregarding those Blackfish, not a major enemy. Brazil? Cut a puppet's strings, and the puppet falls. This is about you, Nick, and me, when it comes down to it.

It matters not, they have spilled blood on my account, and I'll stand up for them.

Quoting Nick Shelton
How about you give me the families? I'll even fly the transports over and pick them up, and do all the work.

Yeah, right. You have approx. 5600 Mexicans, and around 3x that in the American numbers. I'd lose 6x that many.

Quoting John Dawn
30-miles.

50 or no-go. I have no qualms with finishing this with you, traitor.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:01 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .

Quoting John Dawn
30-miles.

50 or no-go. I have no qualms with finishing this with you, traitor.

45, You have to think about the people's whose homes are being displaced. Entire cities.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:07 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting John Dawn
45, You have to think about the people's whose homes are being displaced. Entire cities.

It's a flipping DMZ, the civvies can stay, it's the military hardware or personnel that isn't allowed.

Don't forget that includes Belize and Guatemala.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:11 pm
Terms:
PCU:
- Ones outlined in the Email I sent you a while ago minus Alaska stuffs.
ACU:
- 30 mile DMZ
- Sonoran and Sinaola added to Brazilian Control
- No long range weapons on either side
- Wall or no wall
- Ended hostilities and returned POWs and equipment
- Panama Canal trade banned for a month
China:
- Ended destruction of satellites
- No chinamen in the states
- No Bombers past Midway
- See above Canal stuff
- End of "Puppet" namecalling
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:14 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
It's a flipping DMZ, the civvies can stay, it's the military hardware or personnel that isn't allowed.

Don't forget that includes Belize and Guatemala.
so I'm good with 45

Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:15 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting John Dawn
so I'm good with 45

No, 50. Might be 5 miles, but that's 10 minutes sooner I'll know about something.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:17 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Brikkr
China:
- Ended destruction of satellites
- No chinamen in the states
- No Bombers past Midway
- See above Canal stuff
- End of "Puppet" namecalling


What the heII are you talking about with satellites? You're the one destroying stuff here!
I'll send my bombers where I please, you have absolutely no leverage on me.
Everything else is acceptable.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:19 pm
Quoting Brikkr
- 30 mile DMZ
Yes.

Quoting Brikkr
- No long range weapons on either side
Artillery is okay?, just no Cruise missiles, ICBMs, etc?

Quoting Brikkr
- Wall or no wall
a wall isn't necessary.

Quoting Brikkr
- Ended hostilities and returned POWs and equipment
Yes.

Quoting Brikkr
- Panama Canal trade banned for a month
Okay.

Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:21 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
I'll send my bombers where I please, you have absolutely no leverage on me.

Except in the PCU, that was part of the agreement they OK-ed.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:22 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
No, 50. Might be 5 miles, but that's 10 minutes sooner I'll know about something.

What do you have satellites for then?
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:22 pm
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

What the heII are you talking about with satellites? You're the one destroying stuff here!
I'll send my bombers where I please, you have absolutely no leverage on me.
Everything else is acceptable.

I meant I WILL END Destroying YOUR satellites. Oh yeah, there's this thing called interceptors, and I can get them up to the bombers height in about 3 minutes, so yes I do have leverage on you.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:23 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Except in the PCU, that was part of the agreement they OK-ed.


Except the PCU.


Quoting Brikkr
I meant I WILL END Destroying YOUR satellites. Oh yeah, there's this thing called interceptors, and I can get them up to the bombers height in about 3 minutes, so yes I do have leverage on you.


Except for the fact of stealth... You seem to forget that. So, no, no leverage. At all. You can't even strike my lands, unlike Ultra.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:23 pm
Quoting John Dawn
Artillery is okay?, just no Cruise missiles, ICBMs, etc?

Yes, Artillery is ok. I meant within range of the DMZ, not banned from ownership and development.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:26 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting John Dawn
What do you have satellites for then?

They'll give me the 10 minutes.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:26 pm
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
Except for the fact of stealth... You seem to forget that. So, no, no leverage. At all. You can't even strike my lands, unlike Ultra.

You have seriously underestimated me, my friend. It shall all become clear soon. As for stealth, I've got a counter for that too.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:28 pm
Quoting Brikkr
Quoting John Dawn
Artillery is okay?, just no Cruise missiles, ICBMs, etc?

Yes, Artillery is ok. I meant within range of the DMZ, not banned from ownership and development.

okay then we have reached an agreement.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:28 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Brikkr
You have seriously underestimated me, my friend. It shall all become clear soon. As for stealth, I've got a counter for that too.

No you don't, no one does. The kind of technology needed to counter stealth is too advanced for anyone in this group to understand, so we don't allow it.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:29 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Brikkr
You have seriously underestimated me, my friend. It shall all become clear soon. As for stealth, I've got a counter for that too.


Not really. My terms to you are a peace treaty for ten turns, in addition to no Panama Canal for a month and no forces in the PCU.


Quoting Thomas N
No you don't, no one does. The kind of technology needed to counter stealth is too advanced for anyone in this group to understand, so we don't allow it.


This.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:31 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
They'll give me the 10 minutes.

So you don't need the five miles. And when it comes to aircraft five miles isn't much.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:32 pm
 Group moderator 
So, what I'm seeing here is:
PCU:
-The lines will stay where they are.
-All foreign soldiers will leave PCU and WC territory.
-The PCU will not be allowed to pursue trade with China or base Chinese aircraft/troops in the future.
-The HAT-1s may not exceed pre-war numbers in service at any time.
-All personnel from Oklahoma, Idaho, Nevada, and Mexico must be returned in full. (Tentative)
-$1.5 billion in reparations for gas attacks.
-Return of nonexistent prisoners for the 15 very real prisoners we can count, plus the amount we could surmise of yours we have.
-Retraction of atrocities, since we can't verify you had them, we can just forget that ever happened.

ACU:
-WC territory in Mexico will be returned, but with the establishment of a 45-mile DMZ along our borders, ALL on your side, not ours.
- 30 mile DMZ
- Sonoran and Sinaola added to Brazilian Control
- No long range weapons on either side
- Wall or no wall
- Ended hostilities and returned POWs and equipment
- Panama Canal trade banned for a month
China:
- Ended destruction of satellites
- No chinamen in the states (dealt with above)
- See above Canal stuff
- End of "Puppet" namecalling
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:38 pm
Quoting Thomas N
No you don't, no one does. The kind of technology needed to counter stealth is too advanced for anyone in this group to understand, so we don't allow it.

I was making a joke. >.>
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:38 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting John Dawn
So you don't need the five miles. And when it comes to aircraft five miles isn't much.

Whatever, 45 it is. And I'm keeping a very close eye on you, traitor.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:39 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Whatever, 45 it is. And I'm keeping a very close eye on you, traitor.

Affirmative.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:41 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C
So, what's your GDP?

You are not invited into this matter.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:41 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
China:
- Ended destruction of satellites
- No chinamen in the states (dealt with above)
- See above Canal stuff
- End of "Puppet" namecalling


The Koaxiang Empire accepts these terms, and is willing to sign such a treaty.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:44 pm
And with the war pretty much over, I'm going to bed.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:45 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
The Koaxiang Empire accepts these terms, and is willing to sign such a treaty.

Excellent!

I hope Jack gets here quick.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:45 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
So, Assuming we're going by frontlines-ish, the PCU will cede Alberta, the rest of Idaho, Nevada, and the Baja peninsula to the WC?


That's what it looks like.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:48 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
So, Assuming we're going by frontlines-ish, the PCU will cede Alberta, the rest of Idaho, Nevada, and the Baja peninsula to the WC?

California, Oregon, and Washington will remain his. That is, if Jack wants the other part of Canada.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:50 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
California, Oregon, and Washington will remain his. That is, if Jack wants the other part of Canada.


Technically, my forces still hold the south and western parts of British Columbia. Given the statement of the lines will be kept as they are...
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:52 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

Technically, my forces still hold the south and western parts of British Columbia. Given the statement of the lines will be kept as they are...

...Pending Alaska's say so. I'm good with Alberta.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:55 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
...Pending Alaska's say so. I'm good with Alberta.


We'll see how this unfolds then.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:56 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
As far as I know though, Nick still has yet to agree to these terms right? So we are waiting on both him and Jack, correct?

Nick agrees with everything but returning the military members of the states and countries not under his control. We're still working on that.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:58 pm
Sorry, I've been busy lately.

Is it possible, Nick, that I could swap frontlines around a bit? My proposed borders will return all of B.C. to the PCU except Southeast Alaska will be extended along the highway (see map below) to include Prince Rupert and Queen Charlotte Islands.

http://transcanadahighway.com/images/BC.jpg

I can make a map of what I'd like if you prefer.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 4:48 pm
My final words:

I will not agree to any of Brazil's terms.

I will agree to Jack's about B.C.

Alberta stays mine, it wasn't lost.

Chinamen can be based out of the PCU, but not trade.

Soldiers will not be returned, since most were dead. Have fun telling their families you killed them.

Money will not be given for any reason regarding gas attacks.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 5:29 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
My final words:

I will not agree to any of Brazil's terms.

I will agree to Jack's about B.C.

Alberta stays mine, it wasn't lost.

Chinamen can be based out of the PCU, but not trade.

Soldiers will not be returned, since most were dead. Have fun telling their families you killed them.

Money will not be given for any reason regarding gas attacks.

You won't agree to payment for the Panama Canal? Wow you're cheap.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 5:59 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
My final words:

I will not agree to any of Brazil's terms.

I will agree to Jack's about B.C.

Alberta stays mine, it wasn't lost.

Chinamen can be based out of the PCU, but not trade.

Soldiers will not be returned, since most were dead. Have fun telling their families you killed them.

Money will not be given for any reason regarding gas attacks.

What? You (and Awe) ALREADY agreed that the Chinese trade AND basing out of your territory was a no-go. So you're changing it up?

Well, this has been fun. Sorry, but as they say, "On guard!" Orders should be forwarded to Dr. S by Henry (or Tom, if you insist) so no 'changes' can be made from either side. Fun doing business with you. Just know that it could have been avoided. We'll talk more on Monday, after you're done crying.

Our position was clear, and since you have swept aside one of our largest partners, we'll have to sweep you aside as well.

The ACU has already accepted our terms, will they too break the agreement? We need to know, ASAP. If no reply, we'll assume it's a 'yes, we'll break it.'
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 6:09 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Our position was clear, and since you have swept aside one of our largest partners, we'll have to sweep you aside as well.

From what I've heard, Brikkr's terms are still too Versailles-like. He should at least post them here for review before we make Nick agree to them.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 6:21 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N
From what I've heard, Brikkr's terms are still too Versailles-like. He should at least post them here for review before we make Nick agree to them.

China and the ACU already agreed to Brikkr's terms. On top of that, Nick has tried to change what he already agreed to. That's two strikes.

Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 6:46 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
China and the ACU already agreed to Brikkr's terms. On top of that, Nick has tried to change what he already agreed to. That's two strikes.

But we haven't yet seen Brikkr's limitations on the PCU. For all we know, they could still have that Versailles aspect.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 6:59 pm
Quoting Thomas N
From what I've heard, Brikkr's terms are still too Versailles-like. He should at least post them here for review before we make Nick agree to them.

What I've got is:
- HAT-1 count must NOT exceed Pre-war values.
- No Arketers near my territory.
- Payment for the Panama Canal and one month exclusion.
- Don't mention "Puppet" when speaking about me.

Not too Versailles like, is it?
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 7:20 pm
I have no problem with any of Ultra's terms except for his limits on the Chinese basing out of PCU. Without a Chinese garrison, he can sweep in and surround me and spring a trap so China can't get in. He says he won't do it, but he also said he'd never attack me.

HAT-1 Limits are an attempt to limit the power of the PCU, and I won't accept them by a power that can't and won't engage in a war with me outside of air forces.

I do not care for the money. I can and will pay for the damage on buildings, but I won't pay for the dead civilians. You've wiped out nearly all of my Army, and you expect me to pay you? How about, no?
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 7:51 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
HAT-1 Limits are an attempt to limit the power of the PCU, and I won't accept them by a power that can't and won't engage in a war with me outside of air forces.

I hope you realize that after the admins are done with you, you won't be powerful for a long time.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 7:59 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting henry wang
Quoting Nick Shelton
HAT-1 Limits are an attempt to limit the power of the PCU, and I won't accept them by a power that can't and won't engage in a war with me outside of air forces.

I hope you realize that after the admins are done with you, you won't be powerful for a long time.
Nor is Ultra,or practically anyone else involved.

Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 8:21 pm
Quoting henry wang
Quoting Nick Shelton
HAT-1 Limits are an attempt to limit the power of the PCU, and I won't accept them by a power that can't and won't engage in a war with me outside of air forces.

I hope you realize that after the admins are done with you, you won't be powerful for a long time.

I just LOVE how everyone in this group pictures me as the bad guy in this conflict. I was invaded, not Ultra. I was almost wiped out, not Jack.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 8:24 pm
Quoting Thomas N
Quoting henry wang
Quoting Nick Shelton
HAT-1 Limits are an attempt to limit the power of the PCU, and I won't accept them by a power that can't and won't engage in a war with me outside of air forces.

I hope you realize that after the admins are done with you, you won't be powerful for a long time.
Nor is Ultra,or practically anyone else involved.

That too, but I think right now everyone should be doing anything that they can to try to end this entire conflict. Nick, I don't think either you or Ultra will be up to another conflict so the Chinese garrison shouldn't be your biggest priority.

@Nick never said you were, but I'm just stating facts here, the longer the conflict lasts, the worse it is for you. Also I highly doubt you can muster the economic strength to build as many tanks as you had before the war.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 8:25 pm
 Group moderator 
Nick, this might be a better time to swallow your pride and at least have something left to defend when Ultra next invades, however many days or weeks or months that may be.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 8:51 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
Nick, this might be a better time to swallow your pride and at least have something left to defend when Ultra next invades, however many days or weeks or months that may be.


At least two months, Evan and I will announce the economic and military penalties and cooldowns once the war is officially over.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 9:07 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
He says he won't do it, but he also said he'd never attack me.

I don't recall saying that.

Quoting Nick Shelton
HAT-1 Limits are an attempt to limit the power of the PCU, and I won't accept them by a power that can't and won't engage in a war with me outside of air forces.

I do not care for the money. I can and will pay for the damage on buildings, but I won't pay for the dead civilians. You've wiped out nearly all of my Army, and you expect me to pay you? How about, no?

You realize that you are backing out of terms you already agreed to? You said 'Yes' to all but the soldiers (then you tried to get me to send you the families, then you said they were all dead...oui). Including not basing or allowing Chinese to base in your territory and not having HAT-1 numbers exceed pre-war figures. Awe even agreed he wouldn't base in your territory.

Now, you're backing out of everything. What's your problem?
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 9:20 pm
Fine. I agree to all terms, but can we limit the money giving to buildings only. I don't exactly have 15 billion to be handing out to invaders.

I'd also like to keep B.C. and Alberta, seeing as how I held most of it.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 9:41 pm
Quoting Evan Melick
According to the correction on my map, the Allies had captured and moved past Calgary, so I'd say that in all reality, most of Alberta was lost.

Tom said they hadn't reached Calgary yet.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 10:25 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
Tom said they hadn't reached Calgary yet.

Tom never moderated. As much as you don't like it, Henry is the only one qualified to say where the lines are. According to the last CR, I had 1,500 well-trained soldiers traipsing all around Canada. And it was $1.5 billion, and $250 million of that is going to Britain for the damages you did to them.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 10:35 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
Ahh, just checked his post, I misread.
Then yeah, Alberta is still majority yours.

The lines stop where they are, so yeah.

Quoting Nick Shelton
Fine. I agree to all terms, but can we limit the money giving to buildings only. I don't exactly have 15 billion to be handing out to invaders.

Including the return of nonexistent prisoners and the retraction (admitting/saying it never happened) of the atrocities for the return of your pilots? As a hint, this is an easy way to save face.

We await the arrival of the natives of our states.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 10:42 pm
Currently at Mock Trial and a Camporee ant West Point, will read Conversation on Sun.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:02 am
Wait, so the war is over? Huzzah!
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 11:35 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting -> avalella
Wait, so the war is over? Huzzah!

Pretty sure! Your surviving men and vehicles will be coming home soon, with medals and free transport! The base on the Baja is yours now, by the way.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 12:46 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Pretty sure! Your surviving men and vehicles will be coming home soon, with medals and free transport! The base on the Baja is yours now, by the way.

Very good! Where exactly is this base, and how large?
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 3:17 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/29/treaty.png

Alright, threw that together quick. How does it look to everyone? Only place I'm thinking I might have messed up/misunderstood is what Alaska got from the PCU.


Looks fine to me, but I haven't gained or lost anything here, so I can't speak for anyone else.

Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 11:43 pm
Quoting Evan Melick
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/29/treaty.png

Alright, threw that together quick. How does it look to everyone? Only place I'm thinking I might have messed up/misunderstood is what Alaska got from the PCU.

Looks fine to me.

/stamp of approval.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 11:46 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/29/treaty.png

Alright, threw that together quick. How does it look to everyone? Only place I'm thinking I might have messed up/misunderstood is what Alaska got from the PCU.

Well, I'm wondering where my slice of Alberta went? I was a good deal in, after I went in a ways, the Chinese only gained about 15 miles. Then there is Hope, B.C.

Without being picky, I was also a good bit into the other states, all the way up to the Sierra Nevadas and Cascade Mountains. http://www.flickr.com/photos/44219944@N03/5655785222/in/contacts/
As can be seen, nearly 2/3 of each of the states is in my possession. That's where the borders are now. I know Canada isn't going to be easy to fix, cause there's some confusion, but Henry & Matt H should give a good bit of help since they were in charge when that was going on.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 11:53 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
Ahh, I was under the impression that only the rest of Idaho, Nevada, and the Baja Peninsula would be directly transferred to you. Moi bad.

Man, this is going to be one ugly arse border.

But with a good view of the mountains! Yes, I agree. Thanks!
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 12:18 am
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