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International Conversation Forum XIX
 Group admin 
Highlights:
-Eastern US at peace?

-Conclusion of S. African War

-Continuation of war in W. US

-New nation

-Other
Permalink
| April 22, 2011, 7:22 pm
In Australia-

Since peace has been made in Angola, the Australian advisors and equipment are immediately being sent back to the naval base in Western Australia. As part of the surrender terms, the Angolan president has stated that the war was Angola's fault, and that reparations will be payed for damage. Seychelles is still a naval base of Angola.

Meanwhile, with Australian news, relations with Malaysia are becoming strong. And also we have allied with the Western Confederation. We are now focusing on the Pacific War and allying with the WC.
Permalink
| April 22, 2011, 8:28 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Matt P
Meanwhile, with Australian news, relations with Malaysia are becoming strong. And also we have allied with the Western Confederation. We are now focusing on the Pacific War and allying with the WC.

Awesome! By the way, I have a map I'd like to show you, somewhere, seeing as the Pacific blockade could use your help. Also, some plans along with it that I've outlined. Check FM, please.
Permalink
| April 22, 2011, 8:38 pm
The Royal Navy is asking for another 2 Vanguard-Class "Boomer" Subs. This requisition request is currently going through congress and most likely will be approved.

The South African Military will slowly be stood down, and all British Troops are being recalled home. But South Africa's military systems are currently being upgraded and they will be given more advanced equipment.

All combat losses are also be replaced.

Due to the Angolan attacks on South African civilians, enlistment has steeply risen. Sales in weapons has also risen. Currently, only sales in high-powered rifles. We will not try to stop the sales as long as no laws are being broken.

Finally the usage of naval mines has been granted by Parliament, and the navy is currently going to be issued naval and unique mines.
Permalink
| April 22, 2011, 10:14 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Matt P
Meanwhile, with Australian news, relations with Malaysia are becoming strong. And also we have allied with the Western Confederation. We are now focusing on the Pacific War and allying with the WC.


If you think I'm going to let you anywhere near my lands, you must be daft. As for allying with the Western Confederation... Bad mistake. /The Doctor "You're gonna burn!"
Permalink
| April 22, 2011, 11:02 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

If you think I'm going to let you anywhere near my lands, you must be daft. As for allying with the Western Confederation... Bad mistake. /The Doctor "You're gonna burn!"

Well, I know you'll debate this vigorously, but you're getting pretty over-stretched, aren't you? Your lands are war-torn, some of those places/provinces undoubtedly sabotaged their infrastructure. But you're charging bravely out there, spreading yourself everywhere.

So, you've got lots of men. Big deal. Can you arm them all? Pay them? Or are you just holding their families hostage?

But, that's ok, as long as you persist, I can claim the same magically recovering economy as you. So, I should probably be thanking you, you could be the one to save me...
Permalink
| April 22, 2011, 11:41 pm
lolOhio-class.
Permalink
| April 22, 2011, 11:50 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Well, I know you'll debate this vigorously, but you're getting pretty over-stretched, aren't you? Your lands are war-torn, some of those places/provinces undoubtedly sabotaged their infrastructure. But you're charging bravely out there, spreading yourself everywhere.

So, you've got lots of men. Big deal. Can you arm them all? Pay them? Or are you just holding their families hostage?

But, that's ok, as long as you persist, I can claim the same magically recovering economy as you. So, I should probably be thanking you, you could be the one to save me...


Over-stretched? I have the follow-up operations in Tibet and Qinghai, and the bois across the sea. No more overstretched than you with your Pacific blockade, war across the entire western North American continent, and your little funzone in Guatemala.

I'm charging to save Nick, that's the only place I'm charging. The Tributary State of Indonesia has activated it's military because of likely Australian hostilities (in fact, this happened about two-three weeks ago). So they're not really my problem, they just answer to me at the highest levels. Indonesia pays themselves, I pay my men, and I can certainly arm them. Maybe you didn't notice my post about churning out guns and ammunition several months ago. However, there's a reason why I'm staying at 900,000 active, instead of jumping up to 10 million like I easily could.

If anyone is claiming magic here, it's you. Even a re-unified China will have a better economy than a low-population segment of the United States.

Permalink
| April 22, 2011, 11:53 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
lolOhio-class.

Well, John said the WC would look good on fire, and you said "Lose half your population."

Since Awe's rear area is in taters, and he can't mount a coherent assault for a few days, it must not be that. Awe knows what happens when his silos open up. You don't have weapons left, and 90-100% of your tanks are no longer (according to Henry, but we'll see what Tom says) so what else could it be?
Permalink
| April 22, 2011, 11:59 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Well, John said the WC would look good on fire, and you said "Lose half your population."

Since Awe's rear area is in taters, and he can't mount a coherent assault for a few days, it must not be that. Awe knows what happens when his silos open up. You don't have weapons left, and 90-100% of your tanks are no longer (according to Henry, but we'll see what Tom says) so what else could it be?


Taters for now. It'll be restored, and even is as I speak. You see, the food situation isn't as dire as you thought, so we've only got manufactured materials to worry about. And that'll be taken care of soon enough.

90%-100% is Henry's estimate, I'm sure Tom will see reason and disagree. After all, whatever losses you inflict here, you're taking nearly the same.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 12:09 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
90%-100% is Henry's estimate, I'm sure Tom will see reason and disagree. After all, whatever losses you inflict here, you're taking nearly the same.

Yes, but all Nick has are 150 HAT-1s. Oh, right, I forgot his magic stats, darn! *Snaps fingers*

However, something was said about 500? I had 500+ when I started, add 250 purchased from various sources, a significant number from Cuba (500++), the 45 M90 MkIs, the 110 M90 MkIIs that I now have, plus I have been putting up a significant amount CAS, more than either you or Nick has. Then again, there's all the tanks that Brazil brought along and their CAS as well.

On the other hand, there's the fact that my factories are untouched whilst 12-15 of Nick's have disappeared (only to have him pull out 50 more from nowhere), thus impacting production of his.

Hey, I'm now convinced too...
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 12:18 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Yes, but all Nick has are 150 HAT-1s. Oh, right, I forgot his magic stats, darn! *Snaps fingers*

However, something was said about 500? I had 500+ when I started, add 250 purchased from various sources, a significant number from Cuba (500++), the 45 M90 MkIs, the 110 M90 MkIIs that I now have, plus I have been putting up a significant amount CAS, more than either you or Nick has. Then again, there's all the tanks that Brazil brought along and their CAS as well.


You've got more tanks, but are they better? We'll see about that. Quality can hold off quantity long enough for the Plan to be initiated, especially if my orders are being followed. This war has only just begun.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 12:27 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great



Frankly I'm looking forward to the day that Ultra actually uses the tanks that he has bought to me, I've been interested in seeing it in actual combat, especially against the HAT-1/2. In a purely speculative way, of course.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 12:29 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

You've got more tanks, but are they better? We'll see about that. Quality can hold off quantity long enough for the Plan to be initiated, especially if my orders are being followed. This war has only just begun.

Well, I pay about $12 Million less per tank than you, and mine hold up (thanks to IF) against yours just fine. In fact, last time Tom was modding, I had 1:1 kill ratios. Once the MkII enters service, I'm sure we'll see a marked improvement.

Oh, thanks to a little innovation on my part, your cheap rockets won't work anymore.

Quoting Matt Hacker


Frankly I'm looking forward to the day that Ultra actually uses the tanks that he has bought to me, I've been interested in seeing it in actual combat, especially against the HAT-1/2. In a purely speculative way, of course.

They're in Canada, by the way. Apparently, they're doing rather well. Of course, better than my tanks. Considering the relative badness of the M89.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 12:32 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Well, I pay about $12 Million less per tank than you, and mine hold up (thanks to IF) against yours just fine. In fact, last time Tom was modding, I had 1:1 kill ratios. Once the MkII enters service, I'm sure we'll see a marked improvement.

Oh, thanks to a little innovation on my part, your cheap rockets won't work anymore.


Too bad, YOU, will die.

No, you won't get that reference at all. For everything there is a season and a time, for every purpose under heaven. And I happen to hold the Mandate of Heaven here, so we've got interesting days ahead.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 12:36 am
Quoting Matt Hacker


Frankly I'm looking forward to the day that Ultra actually uses the tanks that he has bought to me, I've been interested in seeing it in actual combat, especially against the HAT-1/2. In a purely speculative way, of course.

He already has used them in Baja, and has fabricated the 2:1 ratio in favor of himself, completely disregarding the superior armor combination of the HAT-1.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 12:37 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Nick Shelton
He already has used them in Baja, and has fabricated the 2:1 ratio in favor of himself, completely disregarding the superior armor combination of the HAT-1.


That hurts man, that hurts real bad.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 12:38 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
He already has used them in Baja, and has fabricated the 2:1 ratio in favor of himself, completely disregarding the superior armor combination of the HAT-1.

Oh? I just said they were in Canada. How do you know where else they may have been?

I wouldn't have announced such things in the ICF, considering the ease with which it could have been intercepted.

I wonder how you might have known...
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 12:40 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N
Oh yeah, gotta warn you. I've changed the way I mod to make the workload less...

From now on, every kill ration will be decided by the overall MOC, I'm going to compare vehicles and decide battle outcomes based on that along with numbers.

Sorry if this seems unfair, but the back and forth gets to be too much otherwise.

Just remember that anything he throws at me is blocked. That's all. =D

Of course, that is why I built the MkII.

Henry can take care of the casualties. He's been keeping track like me.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 12:44 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Just remember that anything he throws at me is blocked. That's all. =D


Nothing is blocked while I'm still breathing!
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 12:56 am
LET'S ALL PLAY THE BLAME HAM GAME!

I personally would like to mention that under Henry and I, the ratio for Ultra's homegrown tanks was 2 PCU tanks per 3 WC tanks. And I got ticked off when you dictated to us that your tanks will now do better because of a new turret.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 1:17 am
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits
And I got ticked off when you dictated to us that your tanks will now do better because of a new turret.

IIRC, he swapped survivability for rate-of-fire and ammo storage.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 1:43 am
Quoting Thomas N MOC judgment based CRs.

Looks like I'm in for a rude awakening.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 7:17 am
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

I would not like to start another front in Indonesia, even though that sounds silly since you have the physical ability to do so. I am going to say right now that I will not and never had plans to assault anywhere in Chinese territory. I pretty much joined this war for auxiliary help toward Ultra and allies.

Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 9:00 am
Quoting Thomas N
I'm in agreement with this... It makes more sense to me than other options.

Same, but HAT-1/2 will lose in a 2:1 ratio against Matt's tanks as they are one of the best in the group. Cuba's tanks should be equal in losses to the HAT-1/2.

And yeah China you lost all your tanks because you didn't use any tactics and just sent them at enemy lines. And you only said that you had x amount of tanks, which you all used in that assault. Unless you had more but didn't tell me. But you guys should really add some tactics or else I'm going to assume that you're just human waving.

Also on your economy, I'd say it's in shambles. You've been at war since day one, and without a unified America, who exactly will your manufacture based economy manufacture for?
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 10:29 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C
IIRC, he swapped survivability for rate-of-fire and ammo storage.

That's why I have iron fist, which I also made a part of the MOC. So, it should be taken into consideration under Tom's evaluation, 'cause that's what he stipulated.

Well, with 88-100mm of Chobham-steel armor (I won't say which), with the generous slope angle that the MkII has (30 degrees), that's about 3.5 meters of armor plating on the turret. Penetration computation puts the HAT-1s 200mm round someplace off in space at around 150-200m because it bounces off. I just love people who have nothing better to do than make calculators for stuff like this. Then there's also the 3-round burst feature...

Quoting Ham N' Biscuits
And I got ticked off when you dictated to us that your tanks will now do better because of a new turret.

'Dictated?' I didn't 'dictate' anything. The MkI was bad, I admit. But I gotta say I'm slightly disappointed that the MkII hasn't had a better reception even though it is about 10x better than the MkI. Though, it hasn't entered service yet either...I need to fix that.

Even you liked the MkII much better than the MkI.

Also, big guns means lots of power, and the HAT-1 is like a shotgun. The 130mm gun on the MkI could outrange the 200mm with accuracy, and that is what I was talking about. To me, it just made sense. Now, the M89 is rather sad.

Quoting henry wang
And yeah China you lost all your tanks because you didn't use any tactics and just sent them at enemy lines. And you only said that you had x amount of tanks, which you all used in that assault. Unless you had more but didn't tell me.

Just so no one screams 'bias!' the same thing happened under Arty when the PCU tried to slam an armored regiment into Montana. It was beaten badly then, 95% losses, if I understood the report. That thwarted counter-attack led to my current penetration into Canada and gave me a solid outflanking manuever.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 11:40 am
Quoting henry wang
Same, but HAT-1/2 will lose in a 2:1 ratio against Matt's tanks as they are one of the best in the group. Cuba's tanks should be equal in losses to the HAT-1/2.


...what? Matt Hacker? I don't see any tanks on Matt's page. And Cuban tanks? Really? No offense to him, but those tanks are quite possibly smaller than an Abrams, and certainly don't have a large enough gun to even slightly penetrate HAT-1 armour. A 200mm round would tear right through that thing. Mind you, I have a bunch of those tanks. If they're so good, I might have to send them back to the front!

<<<< And yeah China you lost all your tanks because you didn't use any tactics and just sent them at enemy lines. And you only said that you had x amount of tanks, which you all used in that assault. Unless you had more but didn't tell me. But you guys should really add some tactics or else I'm going to assume that you're just human waving.

Even if he IS just "human waving," he's using pretty much the same PLUS better tanks than Nick is. Therefore, his tanks' kill ratio should be 2:1 or even 3:1. I would even say the MOC quality of his tanks are better than that of Ultra's. Everything is on the Axis side here. Without a doubt.

<<<< Also on your economy, I'd say it's in shambles. You've been at war since day one, and without a unified America, who exactly will your manufacture based economy manufacture for?
I'd say with a now-democratic and stronger middle east, they'll have plenty of folks to manufacture for. Also, Europe. Besides, it's the freaking Chinese Empire. They can do anything.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 1:03 pm
Tom is the new CM right?
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 1:26 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting henry wang
Same, but HAT-1/2 will lose in a 2:1 ratio against Matt's tanks as they are one of the best in the group. Cuba's tanks should be equal in losses to the HAT-1/2.

And yeah China you lost all your tanks because you didn't use any tactics and just sent them at enemy lines. And you only said that you had x amount of tanks, which you all used in that assault. Unless you had more but didn't tell me. But you guys should really add some tactics or else I'm going to assume that you're just human waving.

Also on your economy, I'd say it's in shambles. You've been at war since day one, and without a unified America, who exactly will your manufacture based economy manufacture for?


I can accept that.

Tactics? I used tactics. I explicitly ordered caution and the usage of such strategies as going hull-down and going sniper. The tanks were supposed to work with the helicopters, if I remember right, while my planes dealt with other planes, along with my AA vehicles. I had tactics, someone ignored them and said CHARGE for the CR.

Now, for the economy, either everyone's in shambles, or no one is. It's a two way road. Without China, America would go bad, without America, China would go bad. You can't have one or the other, make your choice. My industry may be recently united, but it's still all there as it was in 2011. America is split into many parts, they don't get the whole manufacturing base, because it's split, and because America is a post-industrial nation as of 2011. We couldn't even melt down the steel from the World Trade Centers, we had to send it to Taiwan or something.

Quoting Ultramarine .
That's why I have iron fist, which I also made a part of the MOC. So, it should be taken into consideration under Tom's evaluation, 'cause that's what he stipulated.

Well, with 88-100mm of Chobham-steel armor (I won't say which), with the generous slope angle that the MkII has (30 degrees), that's about 3.5 meters of armor plating on the turret. Penetration computation puts the HAT-1s 200mm round someplace off in space at around 150-200m because it bounces off. I just love people who have nothing better to do than make calculators for stuff like this. Then there's also the 3-round burst feature...


If you get to have your armor taken into account, we do too. The HAT-1 probably has some of the toughest armor in this group, not to mention it's our special composite mix of classified, classified, and classified.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 1:27 pm
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
Tactics? I used tactics. I explicitly ordered caution and the usage of such strategies as going hull-down and going sniper. The tanks were supposed to work with the helicopters, if I remember right, while my planes dealt with other planes, along with my AA vehicles. I had tactics, someone ignored them and said CHARGE for the CR.

Well you never said where to go, so I assumed you meant just go towards enemy lines without trying to flank or without artillery bombarding. Also your helicopters were shot down almost immediately, and you said your planes would be going everywhere not just the attack. But they did complete their role of air superiority. And you never said hull down or engaging enemy units at long ranges. Not to mention those are only done when one is defending or retreating. And from what I got you were advancing.

Also yeah, both of your economies took a hit, but yours took a bigger one. As America's debt was erased and all the money that they owed your former government is gone. Yet, these still fail to answer the simple fact that you've been at war since day one. That's going to cost you because it takes up manufacturing space for all of the munitions and equipment, and it costs valuable resources for the aforementioned as well.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 1:31 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
If you get to have your armor taken into account, we do too. The HAT-1 probably has some of the toughest armor in this group, not to mention it's our special composite mix of classified, classified, and classified.

Yeah, HAT-1, meet Mr. Armor Penetrating Bomb. Super awesome AA rockets, meet Mr. ECM pod.

However, you might have thick armor, but it better be more than 3,000mm (like mine) 'cause your turret reminds me of my M89 turret; blocky and not sloped enough for water to drip off of.

Quoting Brikkr ™
Tom is the new CM right?

And Henry, I think still.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 1:39 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting henry wang
Well you never said where to go, so I assumed you meant just go towards enemy lines without trying to flank or without artillery bombarding. Also your helicopters were shot down almost immediately, and you said your planes would be going everywhere not just the attack. But they did complete their role of air superiority. And you never said hull down or engaging enemy units at long ranges. Not to mention those are only done when one is defending or retreating. And from what I got you were advancing.

Also yeah, both of your economies took a hit, but yours took a bigger one. As America's debt was erased and all the money that they owed your former government is gone. Yet, these still fail to answer the simple fact that you've been at war since day one. That's going to cost you because it takes up manufacturing space for all of the munitions and equipment, and it costs valuable resources for the aforementioned as well.


I said exactly what they were supposed to do, where they were to go, and how far they were to go before enacting on the second part of my plan. Maybe Ham was leaving things out. I was advancing, but with caution. This wasn't a charge.

And yes, it does cost. Quite a bit, I'd imagine. But I have other nations now to help out in that sector, as Cliffe said. Maybe I won't be as strong as modern day China, but I'll still be a lot stronger than any American splinter faction.

Quoting Matt P
I would not like to start another front in Indonesia, even though that sounds censored since you have the physical ability to do so. I am going to say right now that I will not and never had plans to assault anywhere in Chinese territory. I pretty much joined this war for auxiliary help toward Ultra and allies.


You better stay out. I've got no desire for any more territory (except that last Indonesian island I haven't gotten around to annexing). But, if you are helping Ultra, you are fighting me, and therefore an enemy who will be dealt with.

Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
I'd say with a now-democratic and stronger middle east, they'll have plenty of folks to manufacture for. Also, Europe. Besides, it's the freaking Chinese Empire. They can do anything.


Exactly.


Quoting Ultramarine .
Yeah, HAT-1, meet Mr. Armor Penetrating Bomb. Super awesome AA rockets, meet Mr. ECM pod.

However, you might have thick armor, but it better be more than 3,000mm (like mine) 'cause your turret reminds me of my M89 turret; blocky and not sloped enough for water to drip off of.

Quoting Brikkr ™
Tom is the new CM right?

And Henry, I think still.


Missiles aren't the only way to shoot down the plane. Perhaps I should direct you to take a look at my AAA tanks.

3 meters of armor? Could work, though it'd be awfully heavy. I combine thickness with strength, instead of just thickness.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 1:41 pm
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
I'd say with a now-democratic and stronger middle east, they'll have plenty of folks to manufacture for. Also, Europe. Besides, it's the freaking Chinese Empire. They can do anything.

Yes, but their investment in America is completely erased. Also in the past, the Chinese Empires towards modern ages have been complete failures. It took Communism to modernize the country, that's pretty bad.

Well I don't think Ham left out info.

So are you implying that a big gun means everything? Because it's just overkill. The bigger a tank's gun the harder it is to load because the shells just get way too heavy. Also Cuba's 140 mm gun is plenty enough to penetrate the HAT-1/2.

And I also do not need your assistance in judging.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 1:51 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting henry wang
So are you implying that a big gun means everything? Because it's just overkill. The bigger a tank's gun the harder it is to load because the shells just get way too heavy. Also Cuba's 140 mm gun is plenty enough to penetrate the HAT-1/2.

Yay! The MkI has a 135mm though. I fixed that on the MkII with 140mm. That's it, those things are going into service ASAP.

Quoting henry wang
And I also do not need your assistance in judging.

I'm done now.

Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
3 meters of armor? Could work, though it'd be awfully heavy. I combine thickness with strength, instead of just thickness.

Who needs heavy? I got slopes. Yours is a barn door.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 2:06 pm
 Group admin 
The Union State is rather enraged by the deaths of our boys in Lebanon. A three-for-thirteen casualty rate is grossly unsettling for such a lopsided conflict in terms of military training and equipment. Presently, we are debating whether or not the Byzantine command in Lebanon is actually capable of efficient combat and if our men performing minimalistic duties will actually have any clean ground to stand on lest piles of coalition bodies begin to mound up. This shaky debate is of course straining regional relations and the PKs may have to be withdrawn with angst-filled minds.

Moving along, the AIFV Mk.II was publicly unveiled today. Large orders by the marines and army have been made after the first ten units were delivered to the latter and tried under the eyes of the media. Their mobility and combat abilities have shown to surpass those of the original make. We hope by end-year more Mk.IIs are in service than Mk.Is.

With one project finalized and hitting the production lines, we now focus on the three others in the works. One of these being the final Mi-24 block. Due to the age of the bird, the Federal Assembly has given the Defense Ministry the okay to fund only one more development on the bird. As it stands, the latter official body is unsure of when they'll take up the former's offer of dedicated dollars.

Another project already near the 50% mark is the updated BMPT model. The more compact and fuel-efficient unit is looking promising with still-weapons testing already have taken place earlier last week. All that remains now is the introduction of newer electronics and composting tracks. More on this in the coming weeks.

Alas, another bird update is in the works as well. Although the Mi-28 was previously ordered in a small quantity, we hope to upgrade the design to fit more dense combat while flying more nimbly. Of course we aspire to these things, but we'll never know if said aspirations are to be met until the final product is complete. More news later.
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 7:08 pm
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe

First of all, let me say I just lol'd.
Would you honestly go into battle inside a huge chunk of "steel" that has a "made in China" stamp on it? I highly doubt it. I'm not going to go into an agruement about who has a better moc (which is what I designed it to be, not an avatar for a stat card), but I'm just going to say that just because you say it has a million-mm gun doesnt mean its the best in the group. Don't argue with me about moc quality unless you want a strategic air campaign on your bahoogey, mmkay?
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 7:27 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting -> avalella
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe

First of all, let me say I just lol'd.
Would you honestly go into battle inside a huge chunk of "steel" that has a "made in China" stamp on it?


I would.

Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 7:53 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
I would.

Wasn't there a recall on those? Something about lead contaminate in the steel? Or was it Uranium...
Permalink
| April 23, 2011, 8:09 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Who needs heavy? I got slopes. Yours is a barn door.

I've got slopes too, and more of them. Clearly that means my tank is the most invincible in the group.

/But the HAT-1 is pretty barn-doorlike.
I don't see how you think a 200mm gun would have less AP capability than a 150mm, though.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 2:00 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Wasn't there a recall on those? Something about lead contaminate in the steel? Or was it Uranium...


We're trying to poison your children for our eventual takeover.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 3:38 am
Lately, some of the finest Spanish/Portugese/Cape Verdan soldiers have been missing from their units and have been replaced by new recruits. Worried families have been informed they are being placed in one of the finest services they can do for the union. This may or may not be related to a project titled "Project Sir Billy Mays"(A parody of Project Norris, don't be mad)

Also, the Conquistador has gone in for some improvements based on what we have see in recent naval battles. These include: reinforced hull, improved anti-missile and AA systems, and possible 120 mm points.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 1:31 pm
In the CDC, unification with our newly merged state of Yucatan is nearly complete. The treasury department has been extremely busy printing and circulating CDC Dollars to our newly enlarged population base, and has taken almost all Mexican/ACU currency out of circulation. The residents of our new lands seem to be very happy to be part of the CDC, which some are starting to unofficially call the Caribbean Union (a name Congress is considering adopting).
With the war winding down in the Americas, a large sense of unity is being bestowed upon CDC citizens, and many are displaying their national pride by putting up flags and statues around towns. Along with this comes much stronger economic unity, and interstate trade is skyrocketing. On a darker note, however, many are speculating that the CDC navy does not have a firm enough grip on our interstate trade routes. Small groups of marauding pirates have begun launching raids on merchant vessels. The Navy is responding to this by increasing patrols in areas where raids are most prevalent, however this task is putting much pressure on our small navy. The CIA (Cuban Intelligence Agency), has begun to investigate more into this matter, which is a great hindrance to economic growth.

Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 2:54 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting -> avalella

With the war winding down in the Americas


/Count Dooku "This is just the beginning!"

Today, in China:
-Construction of all sorts of things goes on.
-There is much confusion over who we are still fighting in the Great North American War.

Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 3:03 pm
 Group moderator 
Oh, Nick. You never did answer my question; how did you know I had C5As in the Baja? In the same conversation that I said they were in Canada, you say I have them in Mexico. That happens to be true, as I did send a number down there, but I wonder how you knew that?

I really, really would like to know how you know. Really. And just what else might you know that only 5 others have known?

Quoting Ham N' Biscuits
This may or may not be related to a project titled "Project Sir Billy Mays"(A parody of Project Norris, don't be mad)

Whatever, you're just jealous of soldiers have have single-handedly whipped the Chinese pretty badly without CAS.

Quoting Areetsa C
I've got slopes too, and more of them. Clearly that means my tank is the most invincible in the group.

Depends on how thick the armor is.

Quoting Areetsa C
/But the HAT-1 is pretty barn-doorlike.
I don't see how you think a 200mm gun would have less AP capability than a 150mm, though.

I don't. It would have more. However, it would be less accurate (.45 cal vs. 9mm) over a greater distance. Plus, you'd have about half the ammo capacity of a 140mm tank.

Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 4:03 pm
If it makes you feel any better, I was under the impression they were only in Canada, and I swear I never saw anything about them in Mexico. He probably got the two mixed up.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 6:19 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits
If it makes you feel any better, I was under the impression they were only in Canada, and I swear I never saw anything about them in Mexico. He probably got the two mixed up.

M'k. Could be Arty, he was the one in charge when I dictated the split-up of the shipment.

Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
-There is much confusion over who we are still fighting in the Great North American War.

Pretty much anyone not in Asia and Europe.
Against you:
-WC/Guatemala/Belize
-Alaska
-CDC
-Brazil (most of S. America, in fact)
-Australia

With you:
-China
-PCU
-ACU
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 7:19 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
M'k. Could be Arty, he was the one in charge when I dictated the split-up of the shipment.

Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
-There is much confusion over who we are still fighting in the Great North American War.

Pretty much anyone not in Asia and Europe.
Against you:
-WC/Guatemala/Belize
-Alaska
-CDC
-Brazil (most of S. America, in fact)
-Australia

With you:
-China
-PCU
-ACU

You forgot me. :P
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 7:30 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
You forgot me. :P

Well... I mean, you've got nothing left here, except a few dozen men. Your last planes & vehicles are smoking ruins in Mexico.

By the way, the offer still stands. If you want to get out, you can go now and I'll just wave.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 7:34 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Well... I mean, you've got nothing left here, except a few dozen men. Your last planes & vehicles are smoking ruins in Mexico.

By the way, the offer still stands. If you want to get out, you can go now and I'll just wave.

You never knew (and it really doesn't matter if you know or not), but I have factories and bases in the PCU. I have tons of infantry and Macro War Chariots and MT-3s ready to support my ally.

I will fight you wherever you are, my boi.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 7:42 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
You never knew (and it really doesn't matter if you know or not), but I have factories and bases in the PCU. I have tons of infantry and Macro War Chariots and MT-3s ready to support my ally.

I will fight you wherever you are, my boi.

When did you get your infantry into the PCU? Did you do it by magic AGAIN? You do know deliveries these days have to go through the CM.

Well, considering I 'suffer' 200:1 losses against the war chariots, I'm not at all worried. But thanks for the info, you'll be another party unpleasantly surprised in the near future.

I'm out for the evening, folks. Have fun!
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 7:46 pm
 Group admin 
Today the UNC Ground Force commander announced that the UNC has finally replaced the C5A tanks sold to the WC. Citing in increase in regional tensions, money was distributed for a further 50 tanks.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 8:18 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
When did you get your infantry into the PCU? Did you do it by magic AGAIN? You do know deliveries these days have to go through the CM.

Well, considering I 'suffer' 200:1 losses against the war chariots, I'm not at all worried. But thanks for the info, you'll be another party unpleasantly surprised in the near future.

I'm out for the evening, folks. Have fun!

Thanks for telling me you're out to get us!

And I was using my chariots improperly. My bad. Next time we engage things will be different.

As for the infantry, they're the ones that have been there the whole time.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 8:33 pm
Cliffe is a perfect model of the Axis, never leaves a man behind.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 8:56 pm
Greater Alenia:
Modernizing in progress.
May or may not be manufacturing new surface-to-air missiles in preparation for new mobile SAM vehicles.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 9:14 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
Cliffe is a perfect model of the Axis, never leaves a man behind.

My gratitude, blood brother. It is merely an honor to serve alongside you.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 9:59 pm
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
My gratitude, blood brother. It is merely an honor to serve alongside you.

Mein Freund, mein größter Dank.
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 10:05 pm
My friends, I am in a crisis. My good friend, Combat Report, has been kidnapped by the two thwy call Tom and Henry!
Permalink
| April 24, 2011, 11:42 pm
Well folks, it looks as if El Presidente has fallen ill, and since he will not be going to schoo-err-meetings today, he will likely begin to make some reforms today.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 7:41 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
Thanks for telling me you're out to get us!

Hey, what are enemies for?

Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
And I was using my chariots improperly. My bad. Next time we engage things will be different.

The Italians said the same thing in Libya, look where it got them.

Wait, so ALL your soldiers are experts on the chariots? I could never pretend that my infantry could be expert tankers and just jump into the vehicles on a whim (even though they are cross-trained for a sticky situation). You lost your drivers (or a vast majority of them) in the deserts of Mexico, you couldn't possibly have trained replacements so quickly.

Case in point: Japan and the Marianas Turkey Shoot. They had lots of planes, lots of pilots, very little training = disaster. Same thing with Germany, come to think of it...
Basically, you'll be suffering even more casualties per fight now than you were with fully-trained drivers. Lambs to the slaughter, it won't be a pretty picture. Honestly, I would have stuck with the M1s you had...

Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
As for the infantry, they're the ones that have been there the whole time.

And there's roughly 1,500 fewer of them, against my forces alone. Not to mention the rather sizable force taken by the Brazilians.

Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
Something about chariots

I don't suppose you'd like to elaborate on how you got the oil for fuel. Up until now, the PCU has been able to say: "Wez haz hybridz!" Now, they can't. There is no way that Egypt could (or would, for that matter) make a change to a non-oil based economy when they've got oil to spare.

How is the PCU's resources balancing manufacturing his stuff AND your stuff, even if you are paying for it?
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 12:27 pm
Today in the RAS...

- Runways are being rebuilt
- Deals are being made
- The factory is being repaired
- The half complete southern wall is being resumed
- Military plans are being made
- Alternative energy sources are being researched
- The President of Angola has just mooned South Africa

Thats it, Angola WILL rise again!
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 3:09 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting luke peterson - The President of Angola has just mooned South Africa


And all of Europe just gave Angola the finger.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 4:16 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Matt Hacker

And all of Europe just gave Angola the finger.

>.>
<.<
I'm staying out of this, just saying.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 4:21 pm
Quoting Matt Hacker

And all of Europe just gave Angola the finger.

Most of Angola just stuck it's tounge at you.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 4:32 pm
Quoting Matt Hacker

And all of Europe just gave Angola the finger.


I'll raise a glass to that!
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 4:32 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting luke peterson
Most of Angola just stuck it's tounge at you.


I stick my tongue out at you since you spelled tongue incorrectly.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 4:35 pm
Quoting Matt Hacker

I stick my tongue out at you since you spelled tongue incorrectly.

Ugh, you got me. I knew that word looked funny.

Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 4:37 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
My friends, I am in a crisis. My good friend, Combat Report, has been kidnapped by the two thwy call Tom and Henry!

I've sent Tom my recommendations, but I think he's MIA, we'll try to get back to you, but you need to understand it's a pretty tough job.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 4:38 pm
 Group moderator 
Today, in the Western Confederation...

Option Clear and Present Danger, the 'Star Wars' part of the BMD system has become fully operational as of 10 days ago. Both satellites were tested shooting down old (or not-so-old) satellites lying around up there (hmm, sound familiar to anyone?). Both are real-time linked with the AEGIS system and deep-space radar operated out of NORAD and other places. A few tests are left, but they should perform wonders in coordination with the land-based BMD systems. We are hoping for a day when our citizenry will not be threatened by the looming danger of ICBMs or MRBMs. This will ensure also that any gas-tipped warheads are intercepted where the contaminants cannot do any harm since the land-based system often must wait until the missiles are in their final stages.

Basically, the satellites fire a 500kW laser at the missile to crack the fuel section and breech it. With the simultaneous heating and venting of fuel a consuming explosion results, destroying the enemy missile with its own weapons. From firing to breech takes mere seconds, and it can acquire & fire in an average of 0.25s in simulation and testing. You can do the math. With this easily repositioning BMD system, we can defend an area or a theater in mere moments.

For its own defenses? They're re-positionable, and they can easily put another satellite between them and the satellite killers. Hey, there are thousands of those things out there. Or, they could just reach out and touch the rocket coming up at them in the same way they would the BMs, I like that one better.

Wait, that'd be the second time I used a 500kW laser, I wonder if there's a connection?
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 6:31 pm
While the PCU Senate lobbies for the WC to realize the errors of their ways, and to return before they lose, the Governor has prepared everything in the arsenal. This truly will be the battle royale.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 8:11 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
While the PCU Senate lobbies for the WC to realize the errors of their ways, and to return before they lose, the Governor has prepared everything in the arsenal. This truly will be the battle royale.

You got nothing. Well, you do. However, between dropped hints, threats, and other things, I've got a good picture of what's coming.

However, thanks to my "Loose lips sink ships policy," you know nothing of my plans.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 9:11 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Nick Shelton
While the PCU Senate lobbies for the WC to realize the errors of their ways, and to return before they lose, the Governor has prepared everything in the arsenal. This truly will be the battle royale.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuSdU8tbcHY
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 9:19 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
You got nothing. Well, you do. However, between dropped hints, threats, and other things, I've got a good picture of what's coming.

However, thanks to my "Loose lips sink ships policy," you know nothing of my plans.

Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design…

Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 9:29 pm
In the CDC, several hundred prototype variants of the Modular Combat Uniform (MCU) have been completed, and while the camo pattern has not been finalized (the current prototypes use M81 Woodland), development should end sometime in the near future. About 500 units of the new uniform have been shipped to troops currently deployed in North America.
Also, the CDC CIA has begun to track all of the pirate raids to now-anarchist states of Guyana and Suriname. Soon after the 2nd American Civil War, these two countries fell into lawlessness with the collapse of their governments. These reckless pirate gangs are currently ruling much of the populations of these lands, and El Presidente has since stated that he would not tolerate their illegal actions, and that, if necessary, military action may be taken. He has issued an ultimatum to these pirates that if they do not cease their operations within 48 hours, they will face strong consquences.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 9:32 pm
Quoting -> avalella
...Guyana and Suriname...

Sure is a lot of imperialism in this group.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 9:54 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Both satellites were tested shooting down old (or not-so-old) satellites lying around up there (hmm, sound familiar to anyone?).


China always pays it's debts.

Today, in the Koaxiang Empire:
-The usual production continues.
-We wait for the CR to enact the next stage of things.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 10:19 pm
Quoting Areetsa C
Quoting -> avalella
...Guyana and Suriname...

Sure is a lot of imperialism in this group.


I'd do something about this latest case, but the admins may not let me due to Avalella's involvement in that horrible war.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 10:29 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits

I'd do something about this latest case, but the admins may not let me due to Avalella's involvement in that horrible war.


Well, its not like you are going to take advantage of Henry's drawdown after his war with Angola and do a surprise attack on him and ignite a massive European conflict, so I suppose you could. But why would you want to stop someone across the ocean from taking over two tiny NPCs that would otherwise be useless? Its not like you have territorial claims nearby that are being threatened. And you seem quick to engage in a war despite your disgust at the "horrible war" in America.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 10:45 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

China always pays it's debts.

I haven't finished wracking up the expense account yet.

Quoting Nick Shelton
Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design…

Yeah. Sure.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 10:46 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .

Quoting Nick Shelton
Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design…

Yeah. Sure.

You have made one too many mistakes, and now you will pay dearly.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 10:56 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
I haven't finished wracking up the expense account yet.


Oh, you'll get your due.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 11:02 pm
Quoting Matt Hacker

Well, its not like you are going to take advantage of Henry's drawdown after his war with Angola and do a surprise attack on him and ignite a massive European conflict, so I suppose you could. But why would you want to stop someone across the ocean from taking over two tiny NPCs that would otherwise be useless? Its not like you have territorial claims nearby that are being threatened. And you seem quick to engage in a war despite your disgust at the "horrible war" in America.


Horrible is something you say to the press to make yourself look good when in reality you watch it with popcorn in hand and beer in the other.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 11:03 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits

Horrible is something you say to the press to make yourself look good when in reality you watch it with popcorn in hand and beer in the other.


Regardless, I'll be watching you closely (as I do to pretty much every Euro).
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 11:12 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Matt Hacker

Regardless, I'll be watching you closely (as I do to pretty much every Euro).


Last I checked, Scandinavia was in Europe.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 11:28 pm
Quick question: Would Italy be NPC'd by now because he's never been on except for like the first week? That's what happened with Cliffe's first country.

No imperialism, I swear. Just adding to a plan already in motion.
Permalink
| April 25, 2011, 11:57 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

Last I checked, Scandinavia was in Europe.


Yes, I know this :/ What I meant was considering my fellow Euro's affections for conquest and expansion, I have to keep a watchful eye to make sure that nothing bad happens.

As for Italy, we need to discuss whether it has NPC status, although based of my last conversation with him school life has made it impossible for him to participate.

And if Italy was to become an NPC, I would prefer to keep it open for a new member.

What plan would that be >.<
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 9:13 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
You have made one too many mistakes, and now you will pay dearly.

Bother and nonsense. There is no way we've made mistakes. There is no way you could possibly anticipate our plans, just like you haven't in the past. Except for that little spy who will be dealt with harshly if he tries a certain something...

So I'm very curious how your side, with tanks running quite scarce (I've heard your weak rebuttals to that, I'm tired of them, so spare us), planes almost gone (and if conformal tanks can get them across the Pacific undetected, then why in heaven's name didn't Awe use them at Midway instead of having them splash into the sea?), and troops with no morale left (yeah, CM says that too, I'm tired of those rebuttals as well) somehow expects to launch any kind of devastating attack on me. It will be interesting to see how this goes down.

Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
Oh, you'll get your due.

Actually, if I were you, I would watch your steps very carefully here on out. Now with TWO ballistic missile defense systems, I'd be very surprised if anything you could hope to launch could get through. Do not tire me further, sir.

I'll be thinking over my options very carefully in the next few days. I'll let you know what I decide.

Otherwise...

Will there EVER be another CR?!?!?!
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 11:55 am
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits

This time I don't really care because I'm no where near where he's taking, what really made me angry about Angola was that he invaded the country right next to me.

But just for the purpose of busting his chops, the Royal Navy will be sending advisers to make sure that the CDC does not cause any collateral damage to the civilian population.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 6:13 pm
Quoting Ultramarine

If my troops are at low morale, so would yours, due to the lack of reason for fighting.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 6:16 pm
Quoting Matt Hacker
What plan would that be >.<


A union alliance of my own, called the Western Mediterranean Union. I figure it kind of makes sense, seeing as Italy's economy would now be in ruins seeing as it's based primarily in tourism, and would be willing to be helped by an entity that has made worse off nations into successful economies.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 6:25 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
If my troops are at low morale, so would yours, due to the lack of reason for fighting.

You gave me a couple of VERY good reasons.
1. Midway. That one made the WCHC decide to go, along with every conservative in my territory.
2. Gas attacks. That one convinced my citizens that as long as you existed, there was the chance you could do it again, we're not waiting.

Now, my soldiers are fighting to protect their cities and families from you, and they are fighting many times harder since they now know that capture means death. Just ask your local WWII Pacific vet for a better idea of what I'm talking about.

Oh, I had a little chat with Tom, and neither of us can figure out where you got so many prisoners. You returned all of them taken the first time around, and since there have been only about 3 planes shot down on deep penetration raids, then that's all I can think of that you'd have.

I, on the other hand, have about 15 pilots that were shot down in the badly handled (by you, since I had good intel and was waiting) Gulf oil strike. CAS aircraft may have been shot down by you, but they have by me as well; canceling each other out, if you want it that way. I've been steadily advancing, so I'd have about an 80% chance of recovering them since they wouldn't have gone down very far in.

So, you're wrong when you say my prisoner count is 0; and, I'm still wondering how you have more than 6 of mine?
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 6:32 pm
Quoting Ultramarine

The question still lies, what motivation do you have behind any of this behind this besides Midway? I have one, it's because you are greedy.

Gas attacks? I one time deal.

PoWs? I have them, and that's all you need to know. I may not have as many as I liked, but I do have them.

And continuing to mention your slight success in the Battle of the Gulf will not bring you a victory in the days to come. Nor will constantly flaunting our age difference and your frequent talks with Combat Moderators, which I can match.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 6:43 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
The question still lies, what motivation do you have behind any of this behind this besides Midway? I have one, it's because you are greedy.

Yeah, like you'd just laugh off an attack on Sengal just because it wasn't on the continent? You'd use that as justification for war same as I did.

Probably the only reason you didn't whack Canada is because either you thought I'd back him or you realized there was a great deal of confusion and it was implied that they were under Indonesian control.

You had no such excuse, yours was deliberate and deceptive. Even though it took me all of 5 minutes to figure out who it was, but I did wait to make sure.

That's pretty much it. That and I had no assurances nor need to doubt that it would soon spill onto the continent when you decided my territory was looking pretty good. And I don't want to go 5 rounds about that again; look at it logically for 30 seconds from my perspective.

Really? Greedy? The only thing that I would have gotten out of the Korean/Indonesian War was the undying gratitude of Korea. Maybe an airbase and naval port, but that's what any allied nation would provide another, ask Jack or Brikkr.

Quoting Nick Shelton
Gas attacks? I one time deal.

And I have some beach-front property in Arizona, for those interested inquire within.

Quoting Nick Shelton
PoWs? I have them, and that's all you need to know. I may not have as many as I liked, but I do have them.

Yep, undoubtedly. Except two CMs (Henry too) and I can't quite figure out where from...
But, that's just one more case of you shaking your fist in the CM's face, I understand. Let's see, that makes 4 times now?

I have 5,000 of yours, and that's all you need to know.

Quoting Nick Shelton
And continuing to mention your slight success in the Battle of the Gulf will not bring you a victory in the days to come. Nor will constantly flaunting our age difference and your frequent talks with Combat Moderators, which I can match.

Hey, at least my victories are legitimate. Not magical, like Midway.

I, unlike others, am not contented to rest upon my past laurels. History is good to learn from, but doesn't always show the future. You'll see.

I have no clue what you are talking about 'flaunting.'
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:01 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton

Your morale is lower because you attacked his civies and I think that that's reason enough to want to fight. Why do you think that after the Pearl Harbor attacks there was such a will to fight, it's because you attacked something personal.

Also what do you mean frequent talks. Sure we talk occasionally, but he just tells me what he's planning on doing. You talk to Tom or at least that's what he said. Are you implying that I've given your plans to Ultra?
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:06 pm
Quoting Evan Melick

On the topic of Italy, the last time I talked to Jake, he said he was going to cede Italy to my control, although I'm kind of waiting to have another chat on that topic with him. I consider that kind of gamey really. :3

For now, I'm just leaving as it is, we'll sort it out eventually.


Ok, I can wait.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:16 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Actually, if I were you, I would watch your steps very carefully here on out. Now with TWO ballistic missile defense systems, I'd be very surprised if anything you could hope to launch could get through. Do not tire me further, sir.

I'll be thinking over my options very carefully in the next few days. I'll let you know what I decide.

Otherwise...

Will there EVER be another CR?!?!?!


WOHOHOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH /shakes wine glass

I don't need ballistic missiles to get you. All you can do to get me is shoot your own, and at what? Going to attack innocent people? No, I don't think so. My factories are too spread out, my government's true location could be anything from a hotel in Shaanxi to a basement in Chongqing.

I can tire you as long as you want, you can't do a thing to me that'll really hurt me. It's you who should be worried.

And no, I don't think there'll ever be another CR.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:27 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N
His morale is higher because he is being INVADED, no one in his liberal nation wants to lose their country to some conservative nation that won't allow them to leave.

Citizen morale, perhaps. Remember Russia? Their morale was through the floor boards and they were being invaded too. Except their citizens were being slaughtered to top it off, I'm just not letting his leave (like leaving by air would be practical, let alone SURVIVABLE in a time of war anyway with countries of our sizes).

Did you know that even German generals saw (and confided in their diaries to the effect) that killing prisoners and civilians was devastating to German morale itself? To a person with a conscience, it makes you feel constantly sick and dirty to watch, let alone take part in such events. Imagine if you're doing that AND losing at the same time. Double blow.

You've made a beggar out of me. Please, pretty please, publish a CR.

Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

I don't need ballistic missiles to get you. All you can do to get me is shoot your own, and at what? Going to attack innocent people? No, I don't think so. My factories are too spread out, my government's true location could be anything from a hotel in Shaanxi to a basement in Chongqing.

Much as I'd hate to do it again, with about 10 of your largest cities missing, you'd never recover economically or militarily. Hey, desperation was justification enough for the PCU, I think I'll use it too, eh?
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:32 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N
Speaking as a liberal myself, an for everyone living in California, Washington, and Oregon, I know for a fact that a country with conservative polices that doesn't allow its citizens to travel outside its borders would be like a version of he||.

Like I said, his citizen's morale is probably fine. It's the troops that count. They're the ones constantly getting pushed back and forced to do unspeakable acts against the very fabric of their being. Unless you'd like to say that libs love dismembering other human beings?

Can you and Henry please publish a CR?

Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:38 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Much as I'd hate to do it again, with about 10 of your largest cities missing, you'd never recover. Hey, desperation was justification enough for the PCU, I think I'll use it too, eh?


You do that, and I will take such a terrible vengeance, generations yet unborn will cry out in anguish. The world will be set against you, forever.

So, as Adama said when someone put a gun to his head: DO IT.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:39 pm
I've already stated we don't kill minorities.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:39 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N
In what, the 20 minutes I have left of computer time today? Sorry, but I just don't have te time right now.

I really don't like being impatient. But what happens when there is never another one published? Do we just always say we're at war? Or do we just stop at the current borders?

Quoting Nick Shelton
I've already stated we don't kill minorities.

What are you talking about?

And name me one reason that Henry can't be the only CM? I've put up with three that have been semi-sympathetic toward you (and one that was outright so), but you can't put up with ONE that's semi-sympathetic toward me?
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:44 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
The world will be set against you, forever.

Until the next group starts, maybe. Of course, in the past, the only ones that have cared have been in your small circle of friends and no one outside of that.

Quoting Thomas N
/sarcasm, and please don't make that remark into a debate.

You tempt me too much. For there is truth in what you say.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:45 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Until the next group starts, maybe. Of course, in the past, the only ones that have cared have been in your small circle of friends and no one outside of that.


Are you willing to risk that? Like I said, stop saying things, and come and kill a few hundred million innocents. See what happens, I dare you.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:47 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

Are you willing to risk that? Like I said, stop saying things, and come and kill a few hundred million innocents. See what happens, I dare you.

Probably, and your group never ceases to amaze me. You'd rather get punched in the face than duck the blow. How...unwise.

Would someone please de-mod my other comment?
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:50 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Probably, and your group never ceases to amaze me. You'd rather get punched in the face than duck the blow. How...unwise.

Would someone please de-mod my other comment?


De-modded.

Now, I'm not ducking the blow, nor taking it. I'm daring you to make that blow. Come on, do it. Stop threatening and do it. Otherwise, I will know that I have nothing to fear from you in that regard, just as you have nothing to fear from me in that regard.

Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:53 pm
In Minecraft terms, I think if Ultra went through with all his threats of killing millions(Examples: Threats to me, Cliffe, and now Awe), his morale would hit bedrock. I wonder how they fight for a government that will so easily threaten foreign nations with destruction without proper reason.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 7:54 pm
Quoting Brendan Dore
What if Ultra went through The Void?


Oh gawd oh man.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 8:14 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
I really don't like being impatient. But what happens when there is never another one published? Do we just always say we're at war? Or do we just stop at the current borders?

Eastasia has always been at war with -E-u-r-a-s-i-a- Oceania!

Quoting Ultramarine .
Until the next group starts, maybe. Of course, in the past, the only ones that have cared have been in your small circle of friends and no one outside of that.

Next group'll probably be medieval in setting. That kind of thing'd be par for the course there.

Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
Are you willing to risk that? Like I said, stop saying things, and come and kill a few hundred million innocents. See what happens, I dare you.

Translated: "Come at me bro!"
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 9:35 pm
The Royal Navy is happy to say that an additional 4 frigates have been completed today. They will go through sea trials in the North Atlantic.

Currently in the private sector, companies that contribute to the developement of better "green" products will be rewarded with tax breaks. Our government has also began to promote developement in the auto-industry of electric engines. We believe that the largest issue here is in fact not pollution or the environment, but our dependence on foreign oil. Yet, at this current time, there is not sufficient affordable and reliable "green" technology existant. So for now we will continue to soldier on with our use of foreign oil.

Affirmative action has also been completely outlawed today. We believe that everyone should have an equal opportunity to find the best place for themselves. That the past process just set some uncapable people up to fail. We believe that there is no completely fair process, but our current one which will judge everyone based purely on intelligence is the fairest one that we have.

Our current nearly completely privatized system of healthcare has proven to be an upgrade from before. Now, not only are people paying less for an equal or better plan. Now, people have the ability to pick and choose what they want, and this will lower costs even more. Not to mention that there are more and more people entering the medical sector and now with waiting lists gone, people in need of emergency care can get it. The elderly and lower classes that really cannot afford healthcare will continue to have their existing public healthcare.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 9:42 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting henry wang

Affirmative action has also been completely outlawed today. We believe that everyone should have an equal opportunity to find the best place for themselves. That the past process just set some uncapable people up to fail. We believe that there is no completely fair process, but our current one which will judge everyone based purely on intelligence is the fairest one that we have.


Good, goood... Let the equality flow through you!

@Areetsa: Indeed!

Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 9:50 pm
 Group moderator 
Nick, call this whatever you want, but I'm fed up with your whims about CMs.

Of the CMs that we've had, the majority of them have sympathized with you. You have been catered to for everything. You've never, aside from Matt, been made to answer for things.

You have lied, cheated, and stolen your way through as many things as you could. And you've gotten away with it. I've posted all of my numbers, and kept track of them, reporting them clearly to the CM; everyone of them. You sit there with a high-and-mighty attitude of yours and said "I know them (no kidding, really?) and that's all you need to know."

Every time you have achieved a literally impossible victory, you've sat back and said "U mad?" with the same attitude. Yet when someone dares to question your numbers, you act as though you've been maligned. Ham hands you the Pacific on a silver platter in a militarily impossible sweep, that's beyond question in your book. Henry says you're running out of tanks, and he's biased as a Nazi.

Name once when Henry's called a fight other than the way it should have been (or logically, that is). Canada? Airborne assaults have been just as successful other times in history. Baja? You abandoned it, what else was supposed to happen?

I think it's about time that we finally have a mod who's not entirely on your side, eh (Tom, not you)? Maybe you need a CM who you can't tell to take a hike, maybe you need a real dose of realism. Maybe you need a kick-in-the-pants to show how it really is. Then we'll see how things go. What? Are you afraid you'd lose your only advantage of the underdog sympathy? Are you afraid that you'd have to swallow some of those deriding remarks you've made?

Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
Now, I'm not ducking the blow, nor taking it.

Simply put: I don't want to do it. However, I also don't want to lose thousands of more men in a fight that is not your business. I'm aghast that you are willing to trade potentially millions of your citizens to keep an ever dwindling amount of men in the states. However, I suggest that you curtail your activities and nothing will happen.

Basically, I'm the man holding the gun saying "Just get out!" Who's holding you at bay at the doorsteps of his house protecting his wife and kids. I've done nothing to you, I'm willing to let you go, I never wanted to fight you, yet you're trying to destroy me. In such a fight, the cornered animal must lash out with every weapon it has, no?
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:11 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Simply put: I don't want to do it. However, I also don't want to lose thousands of more men in a fight that is not your business. I'm aghast that you are willing to trade potentially millions of your citizens to keep an ever dwindling amount of men in the states. However, I suggest that you curtail your activities and nothing will happen.

Basically, I'm the man holding the gun saying "Just get out!" Who's holding you at bay at the doorsteps of his house protecting his wife and kids. I've done nothing to you, I'm willing to let you go, I never wanted to fight you, yet you're trying to destroy me. In such a fight, the cornered animal must lash out with every weapon it has, no?


I'm aghast you're willing to do this. Your metaphor falls flat on it's face, too.

You're the man invading another man's home, trying to take his wife and children, pointing the gun at me saying "Just get out!". That other man has called on me for help. You've done nothing to me, except invade a friend. You are NOT cornered animal. You are the aggressor and a hostile, expansion-bent power who seeks to destroy those I have allied with.

I am not out to destroy you as a nation. I'm out to ensure the continued survival of the Pacific Union. After that, I have no further argument with you.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:21 pm
Project: ORION has come to an end today. The new Alexander Hamilton-class submarines have been finalized, and the lead ship had been pressed into active duty today. The whereabouts of said ship are unknown at this time, but the PCU does confirm that is in open sea.

Five more ships are planned.

Quoting Ultramarine

Actually, airborne assaults are the least successful attacks of all time. They literally almost never work unless you have air superiority on the target area, and you don't.

What's this about me being whiny? I'm not. I just don't like it when the CMs aren't looking at it the way it should be. HAT-1s and MAF-2s are better off than their WC counterparts any day of the week.

As for your kick-in-the pants thing, that made me lol. I've already had one of those, when you broke the cease-fire and I realized that nobody in this group will ever have my trust again.

And that analogy about being invaded totally failed. You're the one who's invading someone, you fool
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:22 pm
What is your problem with CMs, Ultra? You seem to complain about EVERYTHING not going your way. You too have cheated the system, reversing things that were in the CR into your favor, etc. Nick is all high and mighty? Look into a mirror for once, Mr. "How would you feel if some of your major cities are leveled to the ground?"


Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:30 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton

Again we do not need quasi mods running around whining and asserting that their stuff is the best. Now far as I see it, you know exactly the casualty rates that you will be taking. 2:3 with Ultra's tanks, 1:1 with Cuba's, and 2:1 with Matt's. Airplanes, well that's another matter, it's my belief that in dogfights, there can be no set casualty rate because of numbers engaging and tactics.

And the airbourne invasion was quite successful because you did not have air supperiority. Well at least you didn't tell me that you were going to defend your airspace or how many aircraft you had defending your airspace.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:33 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
Actually, airborne assaults are the least successful attacks of all time. They literally almost never work unless you have air superiority on the target area, and you don't.

It just takes the right amount in the right place. That and a classified component that couldn't be mentioned.

Quoting Nick Shelton
What's this about me being complain-y? I'm not. I just don't like it when the CMs aren't looking at it the way it should be. HAT-1s and MAF-2s are better off than their WC counterparts any day of the week.

So was the Tiger and Panther, yet numbers and air power overcame.

I lol'd at the MAF-2. It is the opinion of most admins that the aircraft is greatly overstated. It doesn't even have an internal weapons bay, and gun-to-gun, anything can happen. We have a countermeasure for that, but that's also classified for the time being.

However, you told Matt that you would abide by whatever changes he decided to make. I have your quote on that, by the way. Yet apparently you're not willing to take them? Hmmm.

Henry will be the CM now, you've had your way in the past, it's about time I had mine. At least we can have the CRs published. Hey, if anything too bad happens, the admins will overturn it.

Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
I am not out to destroy you as a nation. I'm out to ensure the continued survival of the Pacific Union. After that, I have no further argument with you.

Right, then you won't cross the border into the WC, will you?

As soon as one of your soldiers steps across the border into the WC, it will constitute an invasion and I will use every weapon at my disposal. As long as we understand that, nothing will escalate.

I suppose we could handle this situation as the Russians did.

Just don't cross any borders and we'll be good.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:39 pm
Henry, that is the most mentally challenged thing I have ever heard in my life and I'd like you to amend your statements right now. OF COURSE WE'D BE DEFENDING OUR AIRSPACE.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:41 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Right, then you won't cross the border into the WC, will you?

As soon as one of your soldiers steps across the border into the WC, it will constitute an invasion and I will use every weapon at my disposal. As long as we understand that, nothing will escalate.

I suppose we could handle this situation as the Russians did.

Just don't cross any borders and we'll be good.


Why would I? That's outside my stability zone, foreign core area. /Civ:RFC fanboy
You're too far away to invade effectively, I'm focused on defense. What lies beyond is not my problem.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:43 pm
Who gave Ultra the authority to all of the sudden kick Tom out of CMing?
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:43 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
Why would I? That's outside my stability zone, foreign core area. /Civ:RFC fanboy
You're too far away to invade effectively, I'm focused on defense. What lies beyond is not my problem.

Well, that's astoundingly logical. Good. Sorry if I came off a bit, off. I'm having a bad day...

Quoting Ham N' Biscuits
What is your problem with CMs, Ultra? You seem to complain about EVERYTHING not going your way. You too have cheated the system, reversing things that were in the CR into your favor, etc. Nick is all high and mighty? Look into a mirror for once, Mr. "How would you feel if some of your major cities are leveled to the ground?"

Yeah? Name me one time that I've had reports altered. Once, when I turned down the yield of the ICBMs under Tom.

No, I know I say that, as a hopeful deterrent. Doesn't seem to work too often. I was pointing the finger back at someone who is blind to his own.

I'll explain later, if I did now, it would blow everything.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:44 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
Henry, that is the most mentally challenged thing I have ever heard in my life and I'd like you to amend your statements right now. OF COURSE WE'D BE DEFENDING OUR AIRSPACE.

Well where exactly? And how? I cannot say, but he most likely would have gotten past because of where the drops took place. Well you gave me no numbers so how was I supposed to know how many planes were flying CAPs because Ultra sent escorts so for all I know due to vague orders, he could have overpowered you. Next time if you want me to be fair send me what exactly you are doing. Instead of just sending me offensive orders maybe tell me how many aircraft you have defending your airspace, but this time around you did that so there will be no more confusion.

Now let's clear this one up, first though, do MAF-2s have Air to Air Missile capabilities or not?
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:45 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits
Who gave Ultra the authority to all of the sudden kick Tom out of CMing?

Tom hasn't done anything as the CM! You can't "Kick" someone who hasn't done anything.

As for the other, well, the same authority as any combatant to request a CM change.

Quoting Nick Shelton
Henry, that is the most mentally challenged thing I have ever heard in my life and I'd like you to amend your statements right now. OF COURSE WE'D BE DEFENDING OUR AIRSPACE.

Yes, but where? When? How many? Speaking as a former CM, you can't assume things if the combatant didn't order it. Ask Tom, he's very put out with how long and detailed my reports are.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:47 pm
I do believe request and saying he will not be CM are two different things.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:49 pm
And Henry hasn't done anything either, so you can't blame him!
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:50 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Henry will be the CM now, you've had your way in the past, it's about time I had mine. At least we can have the CRs published. Hey, if anything too bad happens, the admins will overturn it.


Now that our other problems are sorted out, let's address this.

No one here is not getting their way. You've had your way just as often as Nick has had his. I for one am willing to wait for a truly impartial report from both Tom and Henry. Henry's report alone would never fly with the Axis powers, just as Ham's alone wouldn't have flied with you. Remain calm, Tom will either get something done, or we'll wait for someone else to volunteer.

At worst, we're delayed until June.

Quoting henry wang
Now let's clear this one up, first though, do MAF-2s have Air to Air Missile capabilities or not?


Yes, I thought I said this weeks ago. In fact, I'm pretty sure I did. I thought it'd be logical they would...

Did someone tell you they did not?
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:52 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
And Henry hasn't done anything either, so you can't blame him!

I wrote and planned every report other than the Pacific one and the border one, so I think you can aggree that I've been fair because I've never seen controversy on any of my reports.

@Awe
I've heard different accounts on the issue, but I'm letting you make the call because your the creator.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:53 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits
I do believe request and saying he will not be CM are two different things.

That's splitting hairs pretty finely, don't you think?

Quoting Nick Shelton
And Henry hasn't done anything either, so you can't blame him!

I think that's three times today alone that I am completely baffled by what you are trying to convey.

So, what say ye about Henry? Are you willing to get this on with?
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 10:54 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting henry wang
@Awe
I've heard different accounts on the issue, but I'm letting you make the call because your the creator.


HeII yes I'm the creator, and what I say is final on it. If people are saying otherwise, then I've got a thing or two to say to them. In fact, I'll have thing or two to say if the performance of my units has been affected by something someone else said that is not true. I don't want anything changed, just to keep in mind what's fact and fiction in the future.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 11:00 pm
Attention! I bring tidings of bias with me! Behold!

"My hope is that the PCU MAF-2s will scramble to intercept the [classified]. The MAF-2 has no internal weapons, so they'll need to get a gun kill"

-Jack Ford in plans

So basically Henry saw this, didn't bother to check with Awe, and assumed this.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 11:01 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits
Attention! I bring tidings of bias with me! Behold!

"My hope is that the PCU MAF-2s will scramble to intercept the [classified]. The MAF-2 has no internal weapons, so they'll need to get a gun kill"

-Jack Ford in plans

So basically Henry saw this, didn't bother to check with Awe, and assumed this.

Hey, in a plane that small, I'd make the same assumptions.

Wait, did YOU bother to check it out? Don't try to point fingers here.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 11:03 pm
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits
Attention! I bring tidings of bias with me! Behold!

"My hope is that the PCU MAF-2s will scramble to intercept the [classified]. The MAF-2 has no internal weapons, so they'll need to get a gun kill"

-Jack Ford in plans

So basically Henry saw this, didn't bother to check with Awe, and assumed this.

Well you basically broke CM confidentiality with that. And on another note other people said that too, and no, it did not affect the kills because most engagements were in close gun range and they were very similar to the kill ratios of that of past mods. I also kind of didn't believe it because who would build a modern fighter without missiles. But many people did make quite compelling arguments.

Also ham, if you want to just smear me, that's a little bit low because you weren't exactly the greatest mod. Plus this is one of the new orders, so you basically put out an order that hasn't been put in a report.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 11:05 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting henry wang
I also kind of didn't believe it because who would build a modern fighter without missiles. But many people did make quite compelling arguments.


Well, now you know to ask. And knowing is half the battle.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 11:10 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N


What we've been trying to say the whole time. Well, sad to see you go.

Looks like we're twisted in one direction repeatedly until someone else signs up. Which is pretty unlikely.
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 11:25 pm
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
Yes, I thought I said this weeks ago. In fact, I'm pretty sure I did. I thought it'd be logical they would...

Did someone tell you they did not?

Far as I can tell, I'm the only CM who automatically assumes things like "tanks and aircraft are hardened against EMP".
Permalink
| April 26, 2011, 11:48 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Areetsa C
Far as I can tell, I'm the only CM who automatically assumes things like "tanks and aircraft are hardened against EMP".


You are not, I make the same assumption, just no one used an EMP attack during my time as CM. Franly, every pice of military hardware (save personal electronics) is hardened against it.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 9:54 am
Hi...

I've been away in Ireland and England for the past 2 weeks, and am going back to Aus in just over a week, and I have no idea whisky-tango-foxtrot has been going on in my Internet life, so can we start by someone giving me a summary of 2037?
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 11:59 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
What we've been trying to say the whole time. Well, sad to see you go.
Looks like we're twisted in one direction repeatedly until someone else signs up. Which is pretty unlikely.

Henry's ready to go. Neither you nor Nick have (or can, beyond the ego-trip about creations that would be bashed coming from me but is 'ok' coming from him. Even though Tom has endorsed Henry's reasoning on the kill ratios) come up with a good reason why Henry can't do it. As I recall, both of you were disappointed that Ham wasn't going to do it solo, and we saw what happened (and he's still spreading confidential info around like it's going out of style). So, what argument do you have against Henry?

Quoting Thomas N
You're just upset because you see yourself as the premier power in the world, yet no one else agrees with that.

No, not true. I have a good opinion of myself and my country, that's my prerogative.

Quoting Thomas N
The PCU is not running out of tanks alone. If anything, depending on both of your numbers, you'd both be running out by now.

I can totally see this. I mean, he has all of 520 tanks listed to my 1200 (with production numbers that I've clearly listed). Yep, you clearly are correct.

Of course, that's not counting the 1,900+ tanks from other allied nations that are involved that aren't mine. Thus making it over 6:1 odds in our favor. 3:1 is considered imposing; 4:1 is considered nearly impossible, but 6:1?! Outta be an outright sweep. Change your mind any? If you're even reading this...

Quoting Thomas N
The fact is, the PCU started out this war with a better economy than you.

I'd love to see your reasoning for that. All of it.

Quoting Thomas N
It can't be higher production capability because he had more to begin with, and for all you've destroyed, there has still been plenty more working for him all this time.

Again, I'd love to see your source for that, other than magic.

Quoting Thomas N
So we've established that the PCU has taken similar losses to you, oftentimes less, and we've established that your production ratings are now not too terribly different (his was actually better before the war, but they'd both be pretty low now). So why should he be the one low on forces when you aren't? Actually, he isn't, your constant claims that your air force and ground forces are vastly superior to his are wrong, you've both got still about even forces, and with China's help, the PCU should actually have more. I say should, because this hasn't been the case, for whatever reason.

Actually, you're acting as though I'm the only one involved in this war. This seems to be a constant theme. I'm flattered that everyone thinks about me so much, actually. The blunt truth is, the PCU has been fighting 5-6 nations this entire time. Yes, I've taken bad losses, but not number-for-number mine. I have a huge force of another nation's forces under my control. When losses are listed, they look like all mine while they are split up between me and the other nation.

He's been fighting 5 nation's air forces, 5 nation's infantry, and 5 nation's navies. Somehow, everyone thinks of it as me vs. him in tanks, troops, and aircraft numbers saying, like you, "How could he be running out and you're not?" Gee, I don't know, it's got me stumped too.

EDIT:
The words of a rather seasoned and experienced CM: "I never found the design [MAF-2] that appealing or particularly stealthy." To justify this, I point to the 90 degree stealth defying air intakes and cornered nose. The aspects which most CMs overlook in their 'official evaluation' of MOCs. If someone says it's stealth, it better look it. Remember how you bashed poor Danny's A7? If I recall correctly, your words were (and I quote) "90 degree angles are not stealthy. So this square shape would show up on radar sticking out like a sore thumb." Hmm. Really? Apparently, the F-89 (JSF-1) was good enough for you in the last group, what changed?

Quoting Thomas N
You call Ham's modding of the Pacific militarily impossible and everything else, yet from my seasoned point of view, everything there happened as should be expected. In fact, I would say Nick shouldn't even have lost his aircraft carrier, as in modern naval warfare, it's nearly inconceivable hat two cruisers would manage to get enough fire off within range of a heavily protected aircraft carrier, especially with a much larger fleet, including other, superior aircraft carriers, supporting that one, they shouldn't have gotten near it. And in a similar issue, no your Pacific blockade is not invincible, and no, it is not going to last forever, certainly not for very long in the event someone tries to challenge it with additional firepower.

Really? Submarines successfully using vertically-launched missiles against surface vessels from underneath them? Radar and sonar simultaneously failing in choreographed timing with an enemy attack? You yourself wouldn't have called it that way. Well, you might have. I might have lost (as mismatched as the aircraft numbers were) but it was the ludicrous way in which it was done that made it militarily unfeasible.

You know, I'm not even going to argue that with you. You know what it's comprised of, and the surface doesn't even figure into it.

Quoting Thomas N
And then you go on about your creations. No one but you yourself thinks your creations are destined to be better than anything your allies can put together. I know that I myself, just looking at photos, can see that Awe's, and some of Nick's creations, are just superior as builds to yours. If that shouldn't be the deciding factor, I don't know what should. But the deciding factor definitely shouldn't be: "I have Iron Fist, so my tanks are essentially invincible"... Quality of the build is what counts, not who can come up with as many good qualities of their own creations while simultaneously smearing the other guys' creations. Henry's tank v. tank kill ratios (2:3 for Nick v. Ultra, 1:1 for Nick v. Cuba, and 2:1 for Nick v. Matt), seem very reasonable to me...

I got over that when I realized that I was still heavily using my M89s, upon realizing this, I have recanted many of my rantings, if you'd noticed. However, it was YOU that gave me the 1:1 tank ratio even with the M45 light tanks with Iron Fist. Seems a little backwards you suddenly coming out and saying this. I'm just going to wait until the MkII goes into service; then things should be different.

Better than the allies? Not at all. The F-1 Blackfish is a class of its own, to be sure. The Su is also better. Otherwise, most of the allies use modern-day equipment, which I converted. So, by the name of the game, mine would be better.

Quoting Thomas N
Next, You're so terrified about ICBMs hitting your innocent population, yet you forget to care about the innocent populations of other country's. You personally control roughly 40% of the world's ICBMs, and you use this to try and hold anyone you want hostage by threatening their use against them whenever you want.

Yep. Problem?

Quoting Thomas N
Your most recent use of this tactic has been to try and dissuade China from assisting their friend when YOU'RE the one invading their friend. China has every right to prevent its friend from being devoured, its a good moral cause. Invading and attempting to destroy a neighboring country because they sent 5 airplanes and 3 cruise missiles to your island outpost, hardly a good moral cause, even considering the gas attacks, which can also hardly be used as justification for the original war, seeing as how they happened a long ways into it.

Obviously, we have largely different views. Heck, by your reasoning, 9/11 wasn't a good cause for war. Why did you go to war with Scandinavia? For Greenland? A chunk of ice. Lecture me about causes for war, will you? Take the log out of your eye before trying to remove the spec from mine.

Quoting Thomas N
So you're willing to trade a few million innocent civilians who have done nothing to you except live in a country that you don't like, for what, a few thousand men who signed up to help you invade and take away someone else's country? I applaud you, coward, as you sit behind your sophisticated missile defenses while you launch those same terrifying missiles at anyone who dare get on your bad side. Those civilians are worth more than any of your soldiers ever will be, simply because you're willing to make them victims of your own blind aggression.

Flattery will get you nowhere. You'd think people put as much store in their civilians as I do mine. I've already said, if you'd read the discussion carefully, that I won't do it as long as his soldiers don't cross my border (not now, but what it was). Then, it's a free-for-all.

Quoting Thomas N
and instead of debating, I'm just going to let what I've said hang there.

I like how you'll say this, tell me not to respond, and then make me look bad when I do. Too bad.

Quoting Nick Shelton
Actually, airborne assaults are the least successful attacks of all time. They literally almost never work unless you have air superiority on the target area, and you don't.

Actually, if executed correctly and by surprise, it is possible to gain air superiority in a local area for a certain and necessary amount of time. I'd like to think you couldn't over my airspace, but you could if you did it right. That is, after all, why we have back-up plans.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 1:22 pm
I'll be CM! Seeing as I will be militarily inactive for a while, I could find time, just give me a second chance, plus I haven't picked a side so I can't be biased
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 2:54 pm
After some lobbying from veterans groups in the CDC, Congress has decided to repay all military veterans for their service in the Great American War with full scholarships to universitys of their choice. Many citizens agree that the veterans indeed deserve this, and we expect that many of them will use this money to pursue further education, benefitting all aspects of CDC society.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 4:42 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N
Just going by Nick's stats isn't enough. He's built far more than what's listed, and I for one don't believe that he should have to work with only what is listed, only because he didn't bother to update it, considering that list is months old.

Basically punishing the rest of us for our honesty? What? You know how easy it is to make up numbers? No one can track them! I've been saying that for months! Me on the other hand, I'm upright and forward with my numbers, and look where it gets me. "You're running out." Well, I wouldn't be if I made them up.
I've taken my time to update the stats page with just about everything I've produced, and I'm being punished for it. I could make up numbers too, you know. Of course, on me, you'd pull the "Where are they so we can keep track of them." Or "It's not possible you could have that many!" Nick? Oh, no, he's given a free pass.

It's never been just the numbers. He's all out of military airfields to base his planes out of. He could and is using civilian airfields which will let his planes land and take off. But can you imagine the logistics of rearming 200 planes at 20-30 different airfields? It would be a nightmare. It's real-life combined with the lack of traceable numbers.
Quoting Thomas N
I actually calculated the relative economies of everyone in this group back before the war even happened, by adding up the GDPs of each piece of land controlled by every member (back then), and then adjusting that total based on global conditions (such as the dissolution of the U.S.), Nick's came out better than yours, especially with his control of the INDUSTRIAL POWERHOUSE of California. Go look it up. Highest GDP, population, and GDP per capital out of all U.S. states, and enough to function as the world's 8 largest economy if it split on it's own right now.

Yeah, and they're totally BANKRUPT because of all the bad liberal policies, handouts, illegals, and such like that. Wait, you can't debate me on that 'cause I don't want you too. Low blow? Sad but true. Colorado, on the other hand, is one of the best economies in the US right now. Or was, 2 years ago when Cali started handing out IOUs for tax refunds. Again, how do you explain that away?

Quoting Thomas N
And frankly, no matter how many non-existent raw material deposits (for example, oil in the Gulf of Mexico will, at the rate we're consuming it now, run out in 15-20 years IRL, yet you claim to have plenty at your disposal in the late 2030's) that you invent for your territory, raw materials barely even help make an economy, anyway.

That's what's called 'exploration.' There's tons more out there, but no one's allowed to look for it. It's called 'EPA.' Or how about the oil shale, it's very real. But Nick can say that the new guy is smart because good economies are based on oil, except mine, I get it. Raw materials are a HUGE factor in economy. Not service based, of course. Why do you think the term was coined "Resource-poor nation?"

Quoting Thomas N
Brazil has also taken massive losses in a whole second front, and they started with an even smaller economy than you two, and had less force projection capability to begin with. So, for all the allies you have left, China alone easily cancels them out.

Brazil is a WHAT? Brazil is the world's 8th largest economy! Where on earth are you getting your info?!?! Aside from being the 5th largest nation in the world, that's darn impressive.

Quoting Thomas N
I don't think it was.

Wow. I guess there's nothing more to say. Except that, as a patriot and stern nationalist, I would love to see you in person and give you a real picture of how I feel right now.

Quoting Thomas N
There, I've answered your questions, and I've corrected some misperceptions about me, I'm done now. You can complain all you want about your perceived superiority, but in reality, it will get you nowhere.

As far as the whole "My units are better." I'm a salesperson. We all are. I'm trying to sell a product, if you don't buy it, fine; but trying to berate me on it (over and over and over and over and over again) doesn't speak too highly.

In my defense, I may have (and still do) hype my product, but when the rubber hits the road, I've not once contested the outcome of a battle based on how my units should have been superior. Superior numbers? Yes, I've been rather put out when a vastly numerically inferior attack has been outstandingly successful, but never because my units were superior in every way.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 4:52 pm
 Group admin 
I would also like to point out that you shouldn't be complaining that you haven't won the war, Ultra, when you rejected several good peace proposals, and then decided to try to sell your extremely harsh terms that would imply that you had completely crushed him, rather than the stalemate that it is. If you are getting so worried about not winning, then maybe you don't have to win. Quitting while ahead is still a form of victory, and it would allow you to recover more quickly. You have recently fielded considerable defense measures in regard to ICBMs, which should negate future first strike capabilities. You have already damaged Nick enough that he is struggling without Chinese backing, and unless Awe leaves a massive force there (which you could make a clause in a hypothetical peace treaty against) Nick won't be capable of aggression for a long time even without Versailles terms on him.
Needless to say, you may have to do this by default due to there being like 1 CM left.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 5:18 pm
Quoting Thomas N

...just that theirs wasn't as large as yours or Nick's, and certainly isn't as large as China's. My mistake, I should've worded that better.

So fragments of America have better economys than 60% of Latin America, including all the improvements I've been doing since the first week or so?

Quoting Thomas N Brazil has also taken massive losses in a whole second front...

I've only been in Mexico, really not very much has been goin' down in the Pacific for me. Besides helping with the Gulf Crisis, I've been strictly in Mexico.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 5:21 pm
I think it should be clearer than ever that this conflict is impossible to moderate AT LEAST until summer... let's put this on hold. Because we know we won't be able to settle our differences, either.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 5:33 pm
After reading both sides of the story, I have some words to say.

On my "imaginary numbers":

I do not make them up. I set a limit for all of my equipment before the war based on what I believed I would have from my production. From those numbers, I have added and subtracted after each battle and each delivery up until now.

On my economy:

Disregard Females, Acquire Currency.

On my airfields:

I have a Plan for that one, and I will reveal it to my new Moderator. On that note...

On the Moderators:

Henry is a fool. He's an Ally at heart, threatening my allies to stay out of the war many times. Having him alone would be a clear WC advantage, and I won't have it.

Tom is a well-rounded individual. By my accounts, his CRs are fair because both sides still get victories. I could ask for more to be my way, but I don't see it as a bad thing.

Angola has already shown his incompetence.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 5:37 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
I think it should be clearer than ever that this conflict is impossible to moderate AT LEAST until summer... let's put this on hold. Because we know we won't be able to settle our differences, either.


Wonderful idea! I totally want to hear constant bickering and arguing for another two months!

Quoting Nick Shelton

Henry is a fool. He's an Ally at heart, threatening my allies to stay out of the war many times. Having him alone would be a clear WC advantage, and I won't have it.

Tom is a well-rounded individual. By my accounts, his CRs are fair because both sides still get victories. I could ask for more to be my way, but I don't see it as a bad thing.

Angola has already shown his incompetence.


1) And having Ham be CM was any better or fairer? Not really. You cannot deny his "Axis" bias.
2) Tom JUST SAID THAT HE CANNOT DO IT ANY MORE BECAUSE HE IS BIASED NOW. So there goes that chance.
3) Vrai.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 5:39 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton

I never was an ally I have just always been an advocate of European Neutrality, if that's true Matt is now an ally at heart. Also Areetsa was bombed by Ultra and my last check he supported operations in the WC. And Ultra put up with it. Now how exactly have I been biased, because my reports had 0 controversy. Also if you think asking for your stats is being biased, cry me a river because I think that for this conflict to be truly fair we need to be completely open on every topic.

Who exactly will CM during the summer?
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 5:44 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N
Sorry, that came out wrong, I didn't mean they had a small economy, just that theirs wasn't as large as yours or Nick's, and certainly isn't as large as China's. My mistake, I should've worded that better.

Brazil's economy should be safely larger than mine and Nick's; probably not larger than China's even though Awe's been at war since the word go. An act which I was led to believe by the admins (since they said it) that they would crash that country's economy for them if they didn't take a breather. I just frittered away half an hour looking for it, but I couldn't find the direct quote. Looks like Awe got a "Get out of jail free card."

And, he's intimated a complete lack of willingness to get involved further, so it's still on the PCU's economy.

Quoting Nick Shelton
Tom is a well-rounded individual. By my accounts, his CRs are fair because both sides still get victories. I could ask for more to be my way, but I don't see it as a bad thing.

You haven't been let in on certain conversations that I cannot divulge, but Tom can threaten just as much as anyone. Doesn't mean to the same people, but Spain and England came within shooting distance of each other once. I'd be worried too if I were Britain. Spain just happens to be your ally is all.

Quoting Matt Hacker

My terms were rather harsh, but he wasn't willing to do anything less than a 'Way-back machine' reversal to when the war started. I was only afraid that I might not have been able to hold back if Awe sent more troops or tried for a direct invasion. We've gotten around that now. I have the momentum and I won't stop unless there is unconditional surrender. I keep saying how generous I can be.

I might not have been as patient with the process as I should have been, but it was becoming rather aggravatingly cluttered with 3rd-party individuals who all had their ideas that no WC bases in the Pacific or no ICBMs for the WC.

And no, he'll be back up and running inside of a month because he's coddled by every person in this group. If machinery isn't put in place, he'll get away with it and I won't. That's the way it's been, that's the way it will be.

Quoting Matt Hacker
1) And having Ham be CM was any better or fairer? Not really. You cannot deny his "Axis" bias.

/highfive.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 5:51 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
So, what argument do you have against Henry?

The words of a rather seasoned and experienced CM: "I never found the design [MAF-2] that appealing or particularly stealthy." To justify this, I point to the 90 degree stealth defying air intakes and cornered nose. The aspects which most CMs overlook in their 'official evaluation' of MOCs. If someone says it's stealth, it better look it. Remember how you bashed poor Danny's A7? If I recall correctly, your words were (and I quote) "90 degree angles are not stealthy. So this square shape would show up on radar sticking out like a sore thumb." Hmm. Really? Apparently, the F-89 (JSF-1) was good enough for you in the last group, what changed?

Brazil's economy should be safely larger than mine and Nick's; probably not larger than China's even though Awe's been at war since the word go. An act which I was led to believe by the admins (since they said it) that they would crash that country's economy for them if they didn't take a breather. I just frittered away half an hour looking for it, but I couldn't find the direct quote. Looks like Awe got a "Get out of jail free card."


Against Henry? I don't trust him without a counterbalance. Any more than I trust Ham without a counterbalance, or myself if I was modding this conflict. Ham claims his information is confidential, since he did not say who it was from, or what was involved except my own aircraft.

Now, let's talk about planes. The air intakes and nose angles were unavoidable. Perhaps I should mention your F-89 has no air intakes at all? And I can spot a few 90 degrees here: http://www.mocpages.com/image_zoom.php?mocid=229276&id=/user_images/14536/1286148720m

If we go that path, we're going to get locked in a back and forth circular argument. There'll be no way out of it. So keep arguing or don't, I'm just answering because I'm bored right now.

My economy isn't looking good right now, I admit as much. But your's isn't either, nor anyone involved in this debacle. We offered you good terms, you wanted to press on and lose your good bargaining spot in hopes for a better one. Now we're all going to suffer, you included.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 6:54 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
After reading both sides of the story, I have some words to say.

On my "imaginary numbers":

I do not make them up. I set a limit for all of my equipment before the war based on what I believed I would have from my production. From those numbers, I have added and subtracted after each battle and each delivery up until now.

On my economy:

Disregard Females, Acquire Currency.

On my airfields:

I have a Plan for that one, and I will reveal it to my new Moderator. On that note...

On the Moderators:

Henry is a fool. He's an Ally at heart, threatening my allies to stay out of the war many times. Having him alone would be a clear WC advantage, and I won't have it.

Tom is a well-rounded individual. By my accounts, his CRs are fair because both sides still get victories. I could ask for more to be my way, but I don't see it as a bad thing.

Angola has already shown his incompetence.

What, if your referring to the South Africa thing, I made a stupid move. That would not affect my combat modding at all.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 7:04 pm
In secret underground factories:
-Tanks.
-Special air-to-air missiles.
-Tank ammo.
-Five or so special anti-shipping missiles to be tested at some point.
-Absolutely nothing that would cause upset in the UN, if it still existed.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 7:22 pm
 Group moderator 
Ok, can anyone explain to me what a 'good' economy is based on if it isn't cheap and accessible raw building blocks? Textiles? Got 'em. Manufacturing centers? Smelting (metal works, mills)? Factories? Farming? Lots of work for lots of people? Got it all, since about 4 months ago, what I didn't have already.

Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
Against Henry? I don't trust him without a counterbalance. Any more than I trust Ham without a counterbalance, or myself if I was modding this conflict. Ham claims his information is confidential, since he did not say who it was from, or what was involved except my own aircraft.

My point is Nick is so willing to laugh when we don't agree with Ham, but he's not willing to take it in return.
'Counterbalance' is what it always has been, the admins. Unless you're afraid they won't side with you?
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
Now, let's talk about planes. The air intakes and nose angles were unavoidable. Perhaps I should mention your F-89 has no air intakes at all? And I can spot a few 90 degrees here: http://www.mocpages.com/image_zoom.php?mocid=229276&id=/user_images/14536/1286148720m

It does have air intakes. Here, I've marked them: http://www.flickr.com/photos/46934040@N05/5049575190/in/photostream
What, one spot? That's right between the tail and the thrust vectoring nozzles, that's a very small piece in a very tricky spot. Without being nit-picky, yours stares you right in the face. Otherwise, the wing there looks like it is at odds because of the lighting, if you look at it at other angles, it looks right.


Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
My economy isn't looking good right now, I admit as much. But your's isn't either, nor anyone involved in this debacle. We offered you good terms, you wanted to press on and lose your good bargaining spot in hopes for a better one. Now we're all going to suffer, you included.

I have never tried to pretend it isn't. I'm in a good spot to make a rebound, however, and I'm staying afloat by access to great materials.

Quoting Areetsa C
-Five or so special anti-shipping missiles to be tested at some point.

Ambitious, for a guy with no coast other than the Black Sea...
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 7:32 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
I have never tried to pretend it isn't. I'm in a good spot to make a rebound, however, and I'm staying afloat by access to great materials.


@CM stuff: I'm not afraid they won't side against me, I'm afraid they'll side against me because of outside factors. I want someone there to make sure any other influences are eliminated.

And I'm staying afloat with access to resources too, who'd have thought...
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 8:01 pm
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

@CM stuff: I'm not afraid they won't side against me, I'm afraid they'll side against me because of outside factors. I want someone there to make sure any other influences are eliminated.

And I'm staying afloat with access to resources too, who'd have thought...

Are you asking for an unbiased mod, Because of the fact that I'm not sure who's fighting who, and which side I'm on, I don't know how I could be biased.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 8:55 pm
Today in the RAS...

-Repairing of Air strips
-Repairing and building of factories
-Vehicle building and dispersing
-MMDSs being dispersed
-The "southern wall" is nearly "complete" It will never really be complete, Barbed wire fences and minefields are being added, bunkers are being built and connected by trenches
-All around fortification
-Citizens can now choose to go to "Basic training" the will not join the army, but they will be able to defend thier town
-The Economy continues to grow, Jobs are opening, ecspecially building for the military. You'd be suprised how many people would gladly work in a tank factory, or build a bunker just for food and shelter. I guess that's the advantage of owning a third world country.

One more thing, I would really like to CM.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 9:14 pm
The Alexander Hamilton-class submarines are now up to sale to nations world-wide.


Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 10:30 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Ambitious, for a guy with no coast other than the Black Sea...

Caspian, actually, and I suspect they'll come in handy at some point. Worst case, I can always use them as cruise missiles.
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 11:04 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C
Caspian, actually, and I suspect they'll come in handy at some point. Worst case, I can always use them as cruise missiles.

You gotta be joking me. It really has been a bad day. Oui. I don't believe I mixed those two up...

Quoting Nick Shelton
The Alexander Hamilton-class submarines are now up to sale to nations world-wide.

You cannot produce units during the lull. How many times must we go through this? I haven't, but I can if you want to... Do you want me too?
Permalink
| April 27, 2011, 11:15 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
You cannot produce units during the lull. How many times must we go through this? I haven't, but I can if you want to... Do you want me too?


Well, this is news. Luckily, I haven't changed my numbers since the lull began...
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 12:38 am
This morning in the CDC, Congress has agreed to have the nation's citizens vote on a refferendum to see if they would be in favor of a name change from the Constitutional Democracy of Cuba, to the Caribbean Union. If passed, a new flag would be developed, and more measures to increase unification would be taken, however very little government reform would occur (it will mostly be a processing of renaming and merging government departments state-run facilities under common names).
In other news, Congress has also deemed it necessary for the navy to deploy about 200 RAID commandos into Guyana and Suriname, and commence intelligence gathering operations. They will insert in lightly equipped platoons (all have been issued the latest Modular Combat Uniforms, with an experimental digital tigerstripe camo pattern).
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 1:20 pm
 Group admin 
Amphibious kits similar to the integrated systems aboard the South Korean K-21 have been designed for the AIFV Mk.II. The underskirt materials are made from strengthened plastics with Kevlar binding said plastics together; however, it must be noted that this variation is generally utilized for crossing inlet water bodies. A second kit is also under development to fit the vehicle with a high-buoyancy collar and frontal screen for littoral insertions. The latter design will be attached to the AIFV Mk.IIs being handed off to Saudi Arabia as per previous exchange.

In other news, the Union State was approached by several previous officials running the provinces of southern Ukraine [now parts of the Federal Security Interest]. They came to strike a deal involving power in the form of large federal seats if the Union State were to absorb the FSI as a legitimate state. In return, said officials would contact respected leaders of the rebel/secessionist pseudo-military dominating the southern belt as to end the regional conflict; a sort of dirty hand-off that would ultimately lead in the deaths of said leaders. Presently, the brass in control of the region in co-ordination with the Federal Assembly are debating the legitimacy of the ordeal. Of course accepting this would mean a greater economic burden upon the Union State due to having to further industrialize the region to newer standards and then re-organizing all of the public seats. Still, this would also mean fewer tax dollars being thrown into a neighboring country with a shaky future with large unions being erected all around it. More news on this later.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 1:47 pm
Today, leaders of four nations came together to officially announce the creation of a new regional based union named the Western Mediterranean Union. The founding members are as follows: Spain, Portugal, Cape Verde, and Morocco. Talks have been had with Morocco for months, and recently they have decided to accept due to Cape Verde's recent economic growth. Recent events worldwide and the Algerian invasion have also had significant effect on the decision

The coming weeks will require hard effort on all countries before the union is to take effect. Morocco's economy needs to be reviewed, first and foremost, to decide what needs to be done. Their military will also need to be modernized and their troops retrained to the high standards of the other 3 nations.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 4:22 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
Well, this is news. Luckily, I haven't changed my numbers since the lull began...

Actually, I got to thinking that it might be a bad idea to do that. 'Cause it would put us severely behind any other nation. My worry was the possibility of certain person's production and deployment mysteriously appearing in the CRs... However, if we have Henry forward the orders to the new CM, then we won't have to worry about 'changes' being made.

Ok then, here's my production, which won't mysteriously appear in the CRs until next round.
-25 F-89s
-30 F-29s
-12 A-10bs (A-10 MkII design purchased from Alaska)
-1 Steel-class attack submarine (http://www.flickr.com/photos/46934040@N05/5667181730/in/photostream)
-20 M90 MkIIs
-15 M80s
-2 F-40s
-1 B-3
-25 UH-10s
-20 AH-12s
Guatemala/Belize:
-10 F-1s
-5 MiG-60s
-10 M89s
-15 M45s

Yep, that's a lot. Economically unsustainable? Maybe, but I'm not the only one manufacturing my stuff either...
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 4:44 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
the new CM

Me?
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 4:57 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting luke peterson
Me?

Sorry, but we were wanting one of the admins to do it. Thanks though!
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 7:27 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Sorry, but we were wanting one of the admins to do it. Thanks though!

K.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 8:14 pm
Quoting Evan Melick


To quote Mace Windu, NOT YET.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:02 pm
THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE. THIS FAR, NO FURTHER!
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:10 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
this war needs to end, and that the Allies should agree to a peace treaty, just not one too Versailles like. This needs to stop tying up so much resources in the group, so we can get on with life. >.>


Yeah, like that's happening any time soon.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:11 pm
Quoting Evan Melick
Alrighty. The longer you fight, (whether you lose or not, although honestly, imo, the former option is much more likely for you) you the longer your war exhaustion will last, the the harder it will be to ever recover.


Well, that's like, your opinion man.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:16 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits

Well, that's like, your opinion man.


Yes, its like, the opinion of the smartest history/political dude in the whole group. Clearly what he says means nothing /sarcasm
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:18 pm
Quoting Matt Hacker

Yes, its like, the opinion of the smartest history/political dude in the whole group. Clearly what he says means nothing /sarcasm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsogswrH6ck
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:24 pm
Smells like a cold war's on its way.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:26 pm
 Group admin 


The only response I need is that we could just "happen" to force the nations to stayed exhausted for a long period of time, so not, its not "just my opinion."
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:30 pm
Anyway I'm resigning because apparently I'm "biased" despite the axis' inability to find how I have been "biased."

Not to mention the complete unfairness, unrealism, and hypocrisy of the axis.

I wish you guys luck in finding a new mod because there are none. So settle this whole thing, because either way...Just look at Evan's
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:31 pm
Quoting Evan Melick
Look at me vat?

ALSO, map is updated.

Your statement, I completely agree.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:39 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting henry wang
Anyway I'm resigning because apparently I'm "biased" despite the axis' inability to find how I have been "biased."

Not to mention the complete unfairness, unrealism, and hypocrisy of the axis.

I wish you guys luck in finding a new mod because there are none. So settle this whole thing, because either way...Just look at Evan's


Go read what I said again. I didn't say biased, I said I wanted someone to act as a counter force. Two people working something out eliminates any other outside factors, more or less.

Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:49 pm
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

Go read what I said again. I didn't say biased, I said I wanted someone to act as a counter force. Two people working something out eliminates any other outside factors, more or less.

You definately implied it, but it wasn't directed towards you as it was more towards Nick and Cliffe.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 9:56 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting henry wang
You definately implied it, but it wasn't directed towards you as it was more towards Nick and Cliffe.


Well, as the voice of the Axis, I need to put my statements out there.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 10:03 pm
 Group moderator 
As self-appointed temporary spokesperson for the allies, we'd like to see this war end in short order. However, do not take this as any show or sign of weakness, 'cause it's not. The ACU couldn't help much anyway, they're surrounded on three sides and well contained. They could not have the forces to mount a successful mainland invasion of Texas. China has intimated, backed by the promise of severe and comprehensive retaliation should they cross our border, that they won't and PCU forces could never hope to fulfill their promises of making us "Lose everything."

So, we'd like to take a look at some of the terms. However, I detest 3rd-party interlopers and interference by unconcerned parties. So, with the exception of the admins, only myself, Jack, Brikkr, Andrew, Awe, Nick, and John will be allowed to discuss or broker peace. Cliffe has been excluded because his threat is quite frankly negligible and has nothing to say about the outcome one way or another. My version of the peace is now posted in the negotiations thread.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 10:16 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
China has intimated, backed by the promise of severe and comprehensive retaliation should they cross our border


You keep telling yourself you made me decide something I had already decided when this war began, if it makes you feel better.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 10:35 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
You keep telling yourself you made me decide something I had already decided when this war began, if it makes you feel better.

That was more directed at someone else... No, that's fine, and I understand and am glad about that, but I'm not going to make my end of the bargain go away just in case you're throwing up smoke. I just can't figure Nick out and am dismissing his claims as hallucinatory.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 10:49 pm
The ACU is now offering its newest fighters to any countries that have the clearance to do so. In short if you can see the photo, you may buy it.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:02 pm
Quoting John Dawn
The ACU is now offering its newest fighters to any countries that have the clearance to do so. In short if you can see the photo, you may buy it.


No love for a fellow Axis member?
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:34 pm
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits

No love for a fellow Axis member?

fixed.
Permalink
| April 28, 2011, 11:40 pm
The CDC requests permission to send army engineers into Panama to rebuild and widen the Panama Canal, for use with larger, modern vessels.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 3:21 pm
Quoting -> avalella
The CDC requests permission to send army engineers into Panama to rebuild and widen the Panama Canal, for use with larger, modern vessels.

Come on in. I've estimated that through constant work for a month or so, it's about 40% fixed.
Permalink
| April 29, 2011, 3:43 pm
In the CDC, Congress has decided to send 10,000 army engineers to assist in Brazilian-led efforts to rebuild and expand the Panama Canal.
In other news...
Commando teams inserted into Guyana and Suriname have been continuiously gathering vital intelligence (photo, video, maps, etc.) about the pirate gangs. While their structure seems very similar to the previously dealt-with Colombian Cartels, they have much stronger regional influence (especially in politics). Plans to set up temporary government in both countries are being developed, and also establish some military presence there as well. Congress has already ordered a naval blockade of the two nations, however the navy is still trying to work out how to handle such an operation with such little assets.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 10:59 am
 Group moderator 
Today, in the Western Confederation…

Celebrations were held all across the WC today from Denver to Houston, Great Falls to Salt Lake City, Kansas City to Omaha. The Great War is over, and our enemy has been finished economically and militarily. The families that made an exodus to the countryside after the last round of urban attacks are coming home and life is beginning to get back to normal. Over 1,900 soldiers were awarded Bronze Stars, 642 Silver Stars, 48 Medals of Honor (Still the highest award), 1,300 Distinguished Service Crosses, 253 Navy Crosses, and 500 other medals and ribbons. 65 Unit Citations for combined acts of bravery were awarded as well. The WCAF wasn’t far behind with over 2,000 medals and ribbons for pilots & servicemen that kept the skies clear and nearly wiped out the enemy air forces.

$50 million of the $1.5 billion from the PCU will go to repairing the Panama Canal, along with 15,000 workers and 10,000 tons of building supplies already gathering in the FTC class merchant ships in Guatemala. $40 million will go to a special fund for the children of the 46,000 soldiers that were killed in action during the war, including the children of the English killed in Jamaica.

Thanks to the non-explosive nature of the last missile attacks (challenge that, and I’ll let you know how useless poison gas is with an explosive accelerant, meaning it is consumed in its own explosion), the cities hit are relatively undamaged in infrastructure. Chemical teams have swept the areas multiple times, cleaning all surfaces to well below noxious levels. To decrease public fears, members of the WCHC themselves visited the areas in well-publicized events to show that no more danger existed. Thanks to the emergency measures put in place, the death toll was kept in the 1,500-2,600 range from all attacks. The long-term effects of the gas may cause many to live a shorter life, though cancer research has received millions in donations from humanitarian groups and private individuals.

Not all were in favor of the cease-fire, however, and many threatening letters were written to the High Command accusing them of ‘weakness’ and ‘cowardice.’ Williams and his men were getting ready to head into the mountains and wage guerrilla warfare before they were warned that doing so would make them outlaws and unwelcome home.

In Canada, Chinese and the specialized troops of Project Norris stared at each other steely-eyed as they passed toward their respective lines. Some tense moments were spent when gestures were misunderstood or taunts were thrown. Officers kept their men in line, and no incidents erupted. 35,000 men made their way from the PCU to their homes in Mexico, Idaho, Nevada, Oklahoma, and Hawaii today. They were glad to be home. Some of them, in the captured states, weren’t particularly happy being pressed into service the way they were, and may have contributed greatly to the low morale that the PCU military as a whole was experiencing.

In the Pacific, hundreds of survivors of the WC fleet were plucked from the ocean waters by Guatemalan, Brazilian, and WC ships and helicopters. Midway was used as a temporary helicopter base to conduct rescue operations. The PCU marines there, cut off from communication, were taken prisoner only to be released minutes later, though with some hesitation, once word was received that there was peace. Midway and Wake will be re-garrisoned shortly, and the allied base at Hawaii will be bolstered significantly. Allied aircraft swept up and down ‘The Slot’ all day to ensure that no minds were changed by either side. ‘The Slot’ will undoubtedly go down in history as being among some of the war-winning strategies akin to the Atlantic Gap, sinking hundreds of tons of axis supplies and reinforcements before they could reach enemy shores (refer to Egyptian fleet). Though its failures will also show its fallacies, most notably being the missed opportunities embodied in the Chinese breakthrough. Since it appears aircraft and ships alone are not sufficient to safeguard the islands, static defenses will adorn them in great numbers. Among these will be some of the 100 SAM units obtained from Uzbekistan and the possibility of silos for ballistic anti-shipping missiles yet to be developed & deployed.

Cuba has been granted our former Baja base and we’ve polished everything up for their arrival. We’ll be building a drydocks elsewhere on the peninsula to replace the one there. Corpus Christi will be expanded as well, in addition to more drydocks and port works in Houston. SeaKing, a company that sprouted up about 5 years ago, has taken over the building of the drydocks and will handle the construction of future naval vessels. Especially of interest to this company, is the new territory of Hawaii. On the subject of ships, Sea Lion, the 150mm version of the army’s Iron Fist has completed its first trials on the Brigand-class WCS Buccaneer in the Gulf today, effectively destroying 4 inbound test ASMs of both Alaskan and WC make. The keel has been laid for the (Western Republic Ship, see below) WRS Brigand II, in memorial for the heavy cruiser lost at Midway.

Once again, natural resource production is being expanded in all necessary substances. To meet greater budget demands, gold mining is also being increased. Since industry has taken off recently, thousands of new jobs are being opened up. Nevada, Idaho, parts of Alberta, and Baja are being eyed already by Northrop, Lockheed, General Motors, Ford, Goodrich, Honeywell, and other defense contracting and motor companies for factory and research locations. With such machinery, a prosperous future is dawning on the horizon. Yet, a great threat also looms closer to home. All across the WC, organized groups of Muslims are being cracked down on. This is a sad reality, since by any other nation with a convincing story to a CM; they can turn against us and kill thousands of our civilians and cause great unrest. Unless the admins want to step in and say no one can do such a thing, then I have to look at these individuals as an enemy like I would look at any nation that attacks me. I’d rather deal with the situation now while I can control it, than spend days hunting them down, millions in repairs, and lose thousands of my precious civilians. Also, clamoring has begun for a more republic form of government with national elected leaders. The governor’s convention has voted to lobby for such a government to rule over them. Things are being lined up for the formation of the Western Republic. Elections should begin next month, and the adoption of the old US constitution and bill of rights. Looks like we’ll be needing to sew a few more stars on the old flag too.

Since the PCU can no longer afford the carriers it has, the WC is willing to take 3 Nimitz-class or lower off of their hands for a reasonable price.

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| April 30, 2011, 1:09 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N

Any chance you could de-mod my comment? I have no desire to re-write that novel... Thank you.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 2:15 pm
Quoting Thomas N
The two Karel Doorman class frigates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_Doorman_class_frigate) based out of Netherlands Antilles would be happy to assist you. After all, piracy is an issue that should create international concern, and we here at the Baltic Union do have very large shipping interests to protect, after all.

The navy gladly accepts this assistence.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 3:34 pm
 Group admin 
With the war over, the promised humanitarian support teams are being sent to the PCU and the WC.

The UNC wishes to remind the WC that your Aces' services are required as part of our trade deal. We also wish to provide technical support that may be needed to repair your remaining C5As.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 5:23 pm
Today in the SC...

Numerous parades and celebrations were held throughout the Confederation, from Brasilia to Sao Paulo, from Rio de Janeiro to Caracas, from Panama City to  Bogóta, the whole Southern Confederation was celebrating. Of all of the parades, the one in Brasilia was the greatest. The crowd at the parade was ecstatic, seeing their countrymen marching throughout the city and the heroic tankers that liberated Southwestern Mexico. The Airman Cross winning pilots were featured in a flyover of the Parade in their A-10s that were responsible for their award. 

For their service, 37 men were awarded the Medal of Honor. 237 were given the Blood of The SC award for  heroic behavior before being KIA or wounded. Around 3,523 men were given the Distinguished Service Cross, and 6,722 were given the Southern Medal, First and/or Second Class. (same as the Silver and Bronze stars) 67 Airmen were awarded The Airman Cross for heroic actions. 670 sailors were given the Naval Cross for their actions during the sinking of the PCU Atlantic fleet. 27 civilians were awarded The Southern Cross for heroic actions following the Panama Canal attacks. Over 10,000 soldiers were given other medals and ribbons, including the Mazatlan Medal. Also numerous Aces have been awarded. 

Hundreds of thousands of people were hired and thousands of jobs were created and many are looking into creating their own companies. A small amount of economic decline was sighted, but it is looking highly unlikely that it could increase. Thousands of people have joined Engesa Aviation and Engesa Ground, along with other defense companies. Panama SeaWorks, a new naval company specializing in civilian freighters and now are being hired to expand the dry-docks in Colombia on the Pacific side and the Caracas Shipyards in Venezuela, and the dry-docks in Rio. 

In Mexico, rebuilding is finally ceasing and several hydroelectric dams are being built in Mexico. Numerous companies have been grown in the economic improvement during the war. Mining of Uranium, Gold, Iron, and other ores has been upped because of the war and will probably be shrunk when the cost is payed off. Oil production has also been increased along with Natural Gas extraction. 

Ideas have been going around for the reduction of our ground and Air forces. Also a new Guided Missile Destroyer has been slated for the Navy. Also, our garrisons on the Pacific Territories and their aircraft numbers are being reduced. 
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 5:57 pm
I never agreed to sending my men back. I may not have been clear on that, but I won't ever do that.

And if you think I'm finished economically as well as militarily, then you should just as much look in a mirror. Neither of us will do anything in this group. If you do something, I have the clearance to do it too.

After War Report:

The Ministry of Defense strongly condemns all Allied nations, and all citizens have been deported. High-ranking PCU officials with Allied backgrounds have been questioned, but not demoted.

All soldiers that served in the Needless War have been given the Governor's Cross for their valor in throwing the WC out of their nation.

Governor Shelton has declined any help from the Allied nations, or Britain and the Scandinavians, or Russia.

The PCU Navy basically told the WC they were number one when they said they wanted our Nimitz, and began filling out their Carrier Air Wings once more.

With the war over, production on all advanced prototypes has gone into "fuller" production, with vehicles that performed badly being sold at low rate to Senegal and Indonesia.

Two Nimitz-class carriers have been sent to the Gulf of Mexico, along with commercial cruisers for an undisclosed, peace-time operation. Due to the valiant actions of a long-gone crew, this should be relatively easy. Any attack on them will be dealt with accordingly.

The PCU has respectfully asked that the Allies and their associated acts cut the pleasantries. We don't want to deal with you.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 8:31 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Matt Hacker
With the war over, the promised humanitarian support teams are being sent to the PCU and the WC.

The UNC wishes to remind the WC that your Aces' services are required as part of our trade deal. We also wish to provide technical support that may be needed to repair your remaining C5As.

Yes, I meant to say that. Had it on the list even. 12 pilots with 2 double-aces (14 total) are heading your way today. The assistance is appreciated for the 80 or so surviving tanks.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 8:33 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Nick Shelton
And if you think I'm finished economically as well as militarily, then you should just as much look in a mirror. Neither of us will do anything in this group. If you do something, I have the clearance to do it too.


Either Evan or I will be posting the economic and military "penalties" (in terms of time) for the nations later.
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| April 30, 2011, 8:35 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
I never agreed to sending my men back. I may not have been clear on that, but I won't ever do that.

You did. You said "Fine, I agree to all terms." So, are you going back on it AGAIN?
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| April 30, 2011, 8:46 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Quoting Nick Shelton
I never agreed to sending my men back. I may not have been clear on that, but I won't ever do that.

You did. You said "Fine, I agree to all terms." So, are you going back on it AGAIN?

That's what I meant about being not clear on it. I forgot to add that in.

But yea, I'm not sending my men back. They're my men, and if my orders were followed, I said that the families were pulled out along with the military.

Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 8:48 pm
On a happier note, the PCU is glad this war ended in a draw.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 8:49 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
All soldiers that served in the Needless War have been given the Governor's Cross for their valor in throwing the WC out of their nation.

Hi! This is your friendly neighbor letting you know that we're still here; in about 2/3 of your nation. Some draw that turned out to be...

Quoting Nick Shelton
That's what I meant about being not clear on it. I forgot to add that in.

But yea, I'm not sending my men back. They're my men, and if my orders were followed, I said that the families were pulled out along with the military.

You 'forgot?' What else did you 'forget' that you'll spring on us later?

You said you agreed, and you're going back yet again on what you agreed to. What are you trying to play at here? I literally couldn't care less what you say now, you agreed on it then, and I don't much think anyone will honor a changed mind at this point.

Quoting Evan Melick
We are at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia.

So, uhh final treaty draft please?

No can do. The PCU keeps changing what they agree to after they agree to it. We're still at war until all of them are met.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 8:55 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
You 'forgot?' What else did you 'forget' that you'll spring on us later?

You said you agreed, and you're going back yet again on what you agreed to. What are you trying to play at here? I literally couldn't care less what you say now, you agreed on it then, and I don't much think anyone will honor a changed mind at this point.

I didn't change my mind. I forgot it was in the terms, because I was so dismayed that my Axis didn't wish to continue fighting.

And it was a draw. You won by getting there, in your mind, but if you would've continued fighting I eventually would've won. /draw.

And you won't end the war unless all your needs are met? Man, somebody call Henry Clay.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 8:57 pm
 Group moderator 
Are a few thousand men really going to make a difference? What use would it be?
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:00 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
I didn't change my mind. I forgot it was in the terms, because I was so dismayed that my Axis didn't wish to continue fighting.

And it was a draw. You won by getting there, in your mind, but if you would've continued fighting I eventually would've won. /draw.

Prepare to receive fire, then. This war ain't over yet, apparently...sadly, unless an admin intervenes and makes you keep your word like you should. You really are a pain, you know that?
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:01 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Prepare to receive fire, then. This war ain't over yet, apparently...sadly, unless an admin intervenes and makes you keep your word like you should. You really are a pain, you know that?

I'm the pain? I'm not the one forcing my terms onto someone else. If you forgot, I didn't force anything onto you.

In reality, those civilians wouldn't even be there. Normally, civilians get out of Dodge when the military comes.


Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:07 pm
Quoting Evan Melick
Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the Chinese agreed to a ceasefire, meaning that the backbone of Nick's defenses don't exist any more?

If I fight, the Chinese fight. And I don't fight. It's up to the WC right now. They can have their ghost families together, or I can have the real ones.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:11 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the Chinese agreed to a ceasefire, meaning that the backbone of Nick's defenses don't exist any more?


Due to the code of the empire, we don't leave our friends hanging. I've agreed to all terms regarding me, so I'm ready to leave. But my forces are still fortified in the mountains, I haven't withdrawn them yet. They just stopped firing.

If it's a war Ultra wants, he'll continue to get one.

In the meantime, I want to know why a few thousand people are going to matter.

Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:13 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Evan Melick
I agree with you on the people issue. If it really comes down to it, they don't ruddy matter. >.> Just end the bloody war.


Aye. We're not calling it the Needless War for nothing.

So, how about we let the soldiers decide where they want to be, and their families follow them. By soldiers, I mean admins. Surely Ultra, defender of justice and freedom, will see the wisdom in letting people choose where they want to live.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:21 pm
 Group admin 
The PCU's citizens packed up and headed West. Enough is enough. He doesn't have to deport his own citizens. As far as I am concerned this is a non-issue being made into a big one. The war is over, we can all just cool down now and take a breather.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:27 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Matt Hacker
The PCU's citizens packed up and headed West. Enough is enough. He doesn't have to deport his own citizens. As far as I am concerned this is a non-issue being made into a big one. The war is over, we can all just cool down now and take a breather.

If that is the case, then why did Nick want me to 'forward' the families of the soldiers to him? Obviously, they didn't 'pack up and head west.' First, he says no and to instead give him their families from the captured territory. Then he says they're all dead. Next he says he'll agree to everything. Now he won't. Now their families all moved with them.

Oklahoma and Mexico were conquered and there should be no reason why they'd be at all loyal to the PCU, should there? Like I said, I'm perfectly willing to go on. I know my plans, and I'm pretty sure Evan's estimate is correct or else he wouldn't have proffered his suggestion in the first place.
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| April 30, 2011, 9:33 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
If that is the case, then why did Nick want me to 'forward' the families of the soldiers to him? Obviously, they didn't 'pack up and head west.' First, he says no and to instead give him their families from the captured territory. Then he says they're all dead. Next he says he'll agree to everything. Now he won't. Now their families all moved with them.

Oklahoma and Mexico were conquered and there should be no reason why they'd be at all loyal to the PCU, should there? Like I said, I'm perfectly willing to go on. I know my plans, and I'm pretty sure Evan's estimate is correct or else he wouldn't have proffered his suggestion in the first place.

I pulled everyone out of Oklahoma, or nearly everyone. That was actually in the plans.

Mexico, I didn't. And they'd be loyal to the PCU over an expansionist dictator any day.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:37 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
I pulled everyone out of Oklahoma, or nearly everyone. That was actually in the plans.

Mexico, I didn't. And they'd be loyal to the PCU over an expansionist dictator any day.

Well, you know my terms. You know you agreed to them, whether you like it or not; you should have said so at the time if you didn't. Instead, you're showing that you are willing to change anything you want around to suit your desires. That's dangerous because you're already breaking the treaty.
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| April 30, 2011, 9:44 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Well, you know my terms. You know you agreed to them, whether you like it or not; you should have said so at the time if you didn't. Instead, you're showing that you are willing to change anything you want around to suit your desires. That's dangerous because you're already breaking the treaty.

Well then...

The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many and, before this battle is over, that even a dictator can bleed. Unionmen, prepare for glory.

Unless of course, you kneel.
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| April 30, 2011, 9:45 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Ultramarine .
Well, you know my terms. You know you agreed to them, whether you like it or not; you should have said so at the time if you didn't. Instead, you're showing that you are willing to change anything you want around to suit your desires. That's dangerous because you're already breaking the treaty.


As if you wouldn't do the same.

Give it up, Ultra, the war is over. You can attack again to finish the job in a few months.

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| April 30, 2011, 9:46 pm
@ Nick

If you are selling your outdated equipment, I would be happy to buy. I'm always looking for ways to modernize my military. Also, if you would like any humanitarian aid, I would be happy to help.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:47 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

As if you wouldn't do the same.

Give it up, Ultra, the war is over. You can attack again to finish the job in a few months.

Only if he attacks me. Or breaks the treaty. Which he's doing right now...
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:48 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting luke peterson
@ Nick

If you are selling your outdated equipment, I would be happy to buy. I'm always looking for ways to modernize my military. Also, if you would like any humanitarian aid, I would be happy to help.


Hey, Angola, you wouldn't happen to be interested in acquiring any of these, would you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_99

If so, make a post in the trade board.

Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:50 pm
Quoting luke peterson
@ Nick

If you are selling your outdated equipment, I would be happy to buy. I'm always looking for ways to modernize my military. Also, if you would like any humanitarian aid, I would be happy to help.

Accepted.
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| April 30, 2011, 9:50 pm
At this point, I think Ultra is showing his true colors that he wants to merely expand.
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| April 30, 2011, 9:52 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N

You know, I really couldn't care less. It was part of the treaty that he return them. He's trying to get out of it. My thinking is pretty black-and-white. I find it rather brain-saving. Look, I just want what was promised. He DID promise it, talk to him about it. After all, he's willing to continue this war over them too, now isn't he?
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 9:56 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N
And, if you would pay attention, you would notice that when Nick agreed to the terms, he had forgotten that returning all those soldiers was even part f the terms. Now that he has realized that, and wants to negotiate, you want to push him down and force him to give up civilians that were always his to you just because you're being a maniacal power-grabber and what a few thousand people handed over to you, when they were never yours to have in the first place.

So what? You think anyone (including you) would let me off on "Oh, my bad, I forgot?" Yeah, no, you wouldn't and neither would anyone else. So, finished yet?


Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 10:09 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N
Yes, I would. The thing you need to realize, Ultra, is that we're all human. We don't actually have the power of a nation-state at our backs to support our countries. We don't have a team of negotiators going over every aspect of a treaty. You, I, Nick, and everyone else here are each only one person, and we're all human, and every human makes mistakes. Forgetting one aspect of something before you agree to that thing, (especially in an internet format), is a very human mistake, and is all too easy to do.

It was an 8-point treaty for heaven's sake, not pages and pages. Not saying it's fair, but hey, life ain't, you know?

Quoting Thomas N
So, Nick forgot about the clause concerning the exportation of his own men, agreed to the treaty, and then realized his mistake later, and you're trying to punish him for his forgetfulness. A human mistake, that we can all so easily make, and you want to punish him for it. Over what, a few thousand people, none of whom actually exist, that would have NO AFFECT on your nation whether or not you had them, because whether or not you forced those people to leave their own country, you would sill face the same penalty, the same long recovery time, and the same military restrictions as determined by the Admins, you literally have nothing to gain.

It was clear, as was his response, that if he failed to agree to all terms, there would be a resumption of hostilities. Why do you think he agreed to Brazil's? Generosity? I think not. You're right, they are fictional, and this is a fictional group. Why on earth can't someone keep their very real word?

Quoting Thomas N
So, we have established that getting those people would gain you nothing, so that leaves us one motive. Humiliation. You want to rub it in Nick's face that you defeated him, by taking away PEOPLE that are rightfully his, PEOPLE that want to stay with him, because they are loyal to their country, and not the invader. You want to do this because it will humiliate Nick, and you want nothing more that to humiliate your opponent. That is sad, any respect I ever had for you? Gone. Like that? No? Then stop being such a conceited a--.

I'm not being that. If my 'moves' in a game are that upsetting, I'm sorry.

Anyhow, this infraction will not result in a resumption of hostilities, as much as I'd like. Not out of generosity or good will, but out of mere practicality. I don't know if Alaska or anyone else would join... I'll have my dish served in other ways.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 10:49 pm
 Group moderator 
Well, I don't care about that either. Actually, the Mexicans and Oklahomans would probably love me for it, since I liberated them and all. But, it shall be settled in other ways, someday.
Permalink
| April 30, 2011, 11:20 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N
Everyone else (who supported the PCU, and still do) got out when they could, and you don't have any right to force them back.

Except for the fact that he agreed to send them back. Look, I'm tired of arguing this. All I know is that everyone would make me do it, but no one is willing to make him do it. There has always been a huge double-standard favoring Nick, and no one is willing to admit it. My citizens protest while his are good with everything including the reasonless attack on Midway, other than I was 'greedy.' I've never heard anyone denounce that attack, except that it was perfectly fine because he was attacking me. You think it's perfectly fine that he attacked me without cause, but it's inexcusable for me to attack him with cause. Nick can afford to operate 11 carriers while Henry can't afford more than 5. Even though California is completely and utterly bankrupt he has a better economy than I do based on the fact that he's him and I'm me.

Now, he's stuck with only about 1/3 of the territory he had, and you won't ever say another word about how unrealistic it is for him to operate the carriers he's got. Even though I now occupy a good deal of southern California and he'd never have half the economy that Henry could have.

Quoting Thomas N
You don't care? Then what do you care about? What is your motivation for wanting to keep arguing and arguing for an insignificant point that you can't possibly benefit from?

I don't know, seems to entertain you though. ;)


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| April 30, 2011, 11:50 pm
-Slight modifications to several pre-existing plans.
-"Volk" APS system modified to be able to counter 90 degree missile and artillery attacks.
-"Volk" chassis production underway.
-Military grade tear-gas production increased.
-Soyuz funding reduced.
-Border "mine" production stopped.
-Astana damage repaired.
-Nationwide bomb shelters ~60% complete.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 2:48 am
 Group admin 
UNC HICOM is pleased to announce that design of the JAS-43 Sparv is completed at this time. The type is being put into production. Advanced orders of Byzantium examples will be built at a plant in Norway, while a plant each in Sweden and Finland will be producing orders for the NDAF. Also, qualified nations (AKA those who have seen the WIP or the final version) are now able to order examples of the aircraft.

The Defense Minister has also announced that our production of F-27s has been stopped at four squadrons, and F-27 production facilities are being retooled for JAS-43 examples. A public unveiling is expected within a month.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 8:46 pm
 Group moderator 

Today, in the Western Confederation...

In terms of natural resources, the WC has gained much from the last war.
Washington:
Easter Mine (Gold, Silver, Copper)
First Thought Mine (Gold, Silver)
Gold Reef Mine (Gold, Silver, Copper)
Gold Ledge Mine (Gold, Silver)
Big Iron Mine (Hematite, Magnetite, other forms of Iron)
California/Oregon:
2 Titanium mines
2 Tungsten mines
1 Thorium mine
1 Copper mine
Most if not all of the Tungsten Hills District just east of the Sierras
A few other miscellaneous mines producing similar.

We would all like to see how the PCU gets along with only one operating iron mine, one titanium mine, no coal beds, no Uranium, and the sudden lack of territory. Well, I do know, magic as always.

I'm updating the stats page now to reflect losses & production. Anyone mind telling me how many tanks were lost in terms of C5As, M89s, and M45s? You might throw in Leapords as well.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 8:53 pm
We'll get by fine, that's how Ultra.

You act like you don't want to humiliate your enemy, but we all know this war was just for you to get land and resources, and then laugh at whoever you stole them from. You take by force what you cannot earn by right. Beware, the thousand nations of the Axis Empire descend upon you!

In the PCU, everything within 25 miles of the WC/Alaska border has been evacuated. That area has been designated Official Government property, and according to age old laws, the citizens were paid accordingly.

Due to this sudden evacuation of citizens, and the Needless War that displaced many families, the Ministry of Housing has been given the task of building several areas of affordable housing. The Ministry of Construction and Ministry of Civil Affairs have been called in to maker sure they meet standards.

A large portion of the population, in response to the large threat looming to our East, has joined the People's Guard, a sub-group of the Union Army, and are beginning their training this week. Many of the enlisted have asked that the PCU resume hostilities with the Allies, and they were whisked away to Coronado.

In other news, John Brown AFB has recently accepted a shipment from France, and it rebounded to Pendleton.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 9:27 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
We'll get by fine, that's how Ultra.

You act like you don't want to humiliate your enemy, but we all know this war was just for you to get land and resources, and then laugh at whoever you stole them from. You take by force what you cannot earn by right. Beware, the thousand nations of the Axis Empire descend upon you!

I'd love to conduct a civil war (not in the literal sense) if I had a civil opponent. I don't, you're rather abrasive yourself, don't start pointing fingers. Now Awe and I could have a rather gentlemanly conflict, I do believe. When I can say something to irk you, and you drop little hints, why not, eh? It's called psychological warfare. Escapes some of us, I know.

I'm extremely frustrated is all, not trying to humiliate. No, you don't get it. There is no way for you to "Get by just fine" with what little you've got left. You're attempting to rebuild vast amounts of material with only one iron mine that will be depleted soon if you're not careful and a mere fraction of your former economy. But you'll "Get by just fine" because admins won't pay attention, and you'll have apologetic and sympathizing combat moderators. If you want to do what you're trying to do, you'll have to open up some trade for basic raw materials, it's just a part of life for you now. Otherwise, you won't be able to do it. And thanks to your own actions it's going to take longer because the Panama Canal is out of commission for some time yet. China's resource-rich,

You've been given a huge pass on economic restrictions placed on economies many times your size. You don't see that, and neither do your chief advocates see their own double-standards.

Quoting Nick Shelton
A large portion of the population, in response to the large threat looming to our East, has joined the People's Guard, a sub-group of the Union Army, and are beginning their training this week.

Lovely, citizens to be slaughtered. That's not even humane, man. Like child soldiers.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 9:55 pm
Quoting Ultramarine


We'll get by. One day, the PCU will fall. But the Needless War did not contain that day. As we rise from the ruin of our Union, our enemies cower in fear at the nest they have stirred. A simple hostile takeover of a "weak" nation turned into a Patriotic War where the PCU showed not only its enemies, but the World, that we cannot and will not be destroyed by greedy, land-grabbers. That is our legacy. Your legacy, will be one of greed and hatred. Heroism, not among it. A wonderful way to be remembered, in my opinion.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 10:06 pm
Apparently, volunteer military service is considered inhumane in certain American splinter groups. No one cared in the WMU.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 10:12 pm
Quoting Ham N' Biscuits
Apparently, volunteer military service is considered inhumane in certain American splinter groups. No one cared in the WMU.

Indeed. Nobody wants to lose their homes. If they can do their part, they can. Besides, it's not an active-duty service. More like a trainer for if something does, more like when, happen.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 10:19 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
Indeed. Nobody wants to lose their homes. If they can do their part, they can. Besides, it's not an active-duty service. More like a trainer for if something does, more like when, happen.

Yeah, it's still suicide.

Quoting Nick Shelton

It is not fear, it is pity that makes me speak. Pity at your blindness and arrogance that does not let you see the truth. You initiate aggression and refuse to acknowledge it. You seek expansion and point the finger of greed elsewhere. Beware, for there are three pointing back at you for every accusation.

You call this the "Needless War?" And rightly it is, for there was no reason for you to pursue the aggression against me in the first place. 'Greed' is a poor excuse, but apparently a better excuse than I had.

Our legacy is one of protecting the weak, nurturing the poor, and assisting the downtrodden. We have, without compromising the honor of our less privileged like you, given over 500,000 of them jobs to further and better their lives.

We have been accused of the worst things from those who readily delve into the mire themselves, and sink even lower in their own ignorance.

Our only failure has been the loss of Korea, but that will be dealt with someday soon. The world has seen the decay of the Pacific Union, a power that thought too much of itself, who puts down the poor, enslaves its citizens and forces them to into being cannon fodder. Yet it is us somehow us that is the base one? We point out the truth, and for it we are crucified.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 10:42 pm
Anyone who declares any citizen of the PCU an enslaved person is in need of medical attention. Many times we have stated that slavery was outlawed in 2023, when Governor Shelton came into power.

We did not think too highly of ourselves. We know our limits. We do not seek to expand them. A hypocritical statement to say we have decayed into obscurity, for you sought revenge, and in doing so, you dug two graves. Both of us are dead, or none of us are dead.

Greed, a term fitting of the Western, Eastern, and Southern Confederation. We fought to protect our allies. And then, we ended the war, our job over. The Confederations, in their endless arrogance, looked down into the Silicon Valley, and declared it their own. They could not settle with their current land holdings. They wanted more. One day, they will once again come back to finish what they started in the Union, but this time we will stand stronger than ever. Our resolve has never been higher.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 10:54 pm
There's been a huge victory for America today! Oasma bin Laden is DEAD. Go look on the news, it's all over! The US is currently confirming his death and they are 90% sure it is him. According to the news it was either by ground fire or a Predator Drone.

Carry on with the arguments, just wanted to put this in here.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 11:33 pm
Governor Shelton declined a statement about Bin Laden, seeing as how the US funded him and then got all butt-hurt when he bit their hand.

He probably died from kidney failure, the kind of kidney failure caused by bullets.

Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 11:36 pm
 Group admin 
Indeed, Bin Laden was killed in a firefight last week by SEALs (reported by MSNBC) in a compound in Pakistan.

I must say, Obama made a good speech here.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 11:48 pm
America %&#$ Yeah!
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 11:50 pm
 Group moderator 
China facepalms at this arguing.

In the Koaxiang Empire and it's associated states:
-Production of various things is going to be fulfilled, and then stopped.
-Construction projects for something special have begun.
-Otherwise, it's cool-down time, until a friend is invaded again.
Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 11:51 pm
Quoting Matt Hacker
I must say, Obama made a good speech here.


It was indeed a tremendous speech.

Permalink
| May 1, 2011, 11:52 pm
86 Days ago to the day, F-18 pilots based out of Hawaii struck a glancing blow on the Western Confederation.

Each day, these men flew planes into battle, sometimes they were MAF-2s, sometimes they were F-16s, sometimes still they were F-22s, but the three squadrons survived the War.

All three squadrons have been given the Governor's Cross, and have been honored with being the first squadron in the PCU to be fully equipped with MAF-3 Vessers.


Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 12:20 am
 Group moderator 
And may God bless the United States of America!

Quoting Thomas N

Well, California is bankrupt. Passing out IOU's for tax refunds doesn't exactly say stability for me.
http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/10/is-state-of-california-bankrupt.html
Except, as we all know, the government can get into debt and get away with it. You're right, we are in debt. Though I don't believe many of the doomsdayers out there, as soon as the end of this year food prices could be double because of inflation. That isn't from Fox, by the way, that's from independent economic entities and forecasters with proven records.

As for industry, well, I started building that from day one. Half a million jobs ain't nothing to sneeze at, partner.

For something about me wanting civilians? Did you even read the treaty? It's the military men that he agreed to send back, not the families or civilians. Apparently I still have the families, because he wanted me to send them to him. Military men usually follow orders, not people. The last time the military was allowed to think, we had a civil war. Of course, other than the small matter of slavery, the south was right.

For economics? That's nice, thanks for sharing. Ever watched the "Ten Commandments?" Well instead of making bricks without straw Nick will have to build tanks, ships and planes without iron (at the present consumption rates for only one producing mine), bullets for rifles without copper casings, rounds for tanks without tungsten, IFVs without tin, power without coal or uranium, and armor for vehicles without titanium.

I'll let that sink in for a moment or two so you can appreciate the full significance.

That means he'll have to buy all of that from someplace else. Even if he gets a sweetheart deal from an ally, that's still weeks in transit and that much more capital invested because things like that just can't be given away. Now, by the treaty, he cannot trade with his most resource-rich friend anymore either. Might not make a strong economy, but they sure are nice to have, eh? It's not whatever is left of his economy that I doubt, it's his ability to obtain the necessary materials...Well, and the economy too.

Then there's also the handsome sum he's paid for damages caused to three nations through me.

And for me being the only one that was thinking the attack on Midway was a big deal? Might have been "Just a Pacific outpost" but it was sovereign territory of the Western Confederation. His reaction would have been the same if I'd attacked Sengal, tell me otherwise. However, looks like more people agree with me than you on that subject, 'nuff said.

Just remember the 2x he mobilized without reason, 1x attacked without warning. Figured odds were it wasn't going to be the last time. It's all well and good to say he wouldn't, but no one will ever know for sure, so it's a moot point. Though he did tell Danny that there was much more in store. Seems that circumstantial evidence be in my favor.

Quoting Nick Shelton

Cool story bro. I just went back to the CR and re-read it. Every one of those planes was blasted out of the sky without survivors. My pilots watched their planes sink to the bottom, that part was in there too. But thank you for confirming that it was more than 5 planes, as my detractors deride.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 1:20 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Thomas N
I thought they said it was this morning.


My bad, darn you CNN commentators!
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 8:48 am
 Group moderator 
Today, in the Western Republic (name change)...

Production has all but ceased on everything but the F-40 and ships. We've got an escort carrier on the drawing board that might work out with some decency. The WRAF will need to turn over about 100+ aircraft to the navy, but that shouldn't hurt our abilities to protect our airspace and project our force where needed.

As for the Pacific, the allied commands are still busy divvying up the Hawaiian Islands along with its bases and population. Though they were late-comers to the war, Australia has been given the green light to garrison ships and aircraft on any of the Western Republic held islands. Also, Cuba has been granted the former WC base on the Baja for a Pacific holding. Also, surveillance and monitoring centers are being set up in coordination with Space Command and the Pacific bases to make sure, in a passive manner, that both the PCU and China keep their ends of the treaty. Attempting to subvert it via third-parties will not be appreciated in the least.

The supply ships reached the Panama Canal today, and the several thousand men began work immediately upon arrival.

Realizing our own iron production was a little sparse, Guatemala has increased their output by several hundred tons a month to supply the new resource contract for the Western Republic. An oil contract with Chile has been signed, and we will be delivering our excess and stored oil to them at the lucrative price of $90/barrel. That will net energy companies about $11.7 million in a month, with the option to extend for a year. These companies will be using their own vessels or contracting the FTC-class freighters. A couple other S. American nations have expressed interest in the M45 and M89. We'll see what happens.

The ballistic ASM program has officially kicked-off, in addition to a static-defense system that is presently classified.

On the political front, candidates have emerged to run for the new senate, congress, and even the presidency of the fledgling Western Republic. Former PCU citizens have been granted equal voting rights in the upcoming elections. Until the elections, the High Command retains control.

On domestic matters, over 500 potential terrorists and leaders of organized Muslim groups have been arrested and are being detained indefinitely. We're still awaiting an authority's official word on whether these measures are truly necessary and if these persons can at a whim of an enemy be used against us?

Also, the Baltic Union is hereby informed that the 18 B-3s they ordered are ready for delivery.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 1:35 pm
anyone want to give me an update? I can't find the time to read through everything I've missed.

Awe, is indo free?
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 1:38 pm
Quoting Danny Morgan
anyone want to give me an update? I can't find the time to read through everything I've missed.

Awe, is indo free?

Well, I recently had the snot beaten out out of me, and all land stripped. I am still crying on the inside. By the way, please check your FM.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 2:55 pm
Gee, I wonder how the WR is making all these things with their destroyed economy. /you serious face.

---

In other news, old ships of the Burke-class are being melted down, with half going to new designs like the Saturn-class Cruiser and the Sherman-class LPD. The other half of the melted parts will go to the rebuilding of Portland. It will be built to specifications specifically made by Chinese/PCU officials.

The PCU Navy has misplaced the HGS Pacifica and its Carrier Group.

In Literature News, a book under the title of 86 Days of Glory, has become a best-seller all over the PCU. Many citizens are buying it, due to its accurate portrayal of many aspects of the recently ended war. Compiled by journalists, it features the journals of airmen, Marines, and tankers. Colonel Robert Eames provides a large portion of the book, seeing as how he commanded the Defense of the Union.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 3:12 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
Gee, I wonder how the WR is making all these things with their destroyed economy. /you serious face.

F-40s, a sub, doing research into ballistic ASMs, and a projected carrier is "All these things?" Less than half of what I was building during the war.

So, how do you plan on making shells without copper/tin casings? It's rather fundamental and rather necessary, you know. Not trying to be a troll, but you're still not getting it.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 3:16 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
F-40s, a sub, doing research into ballistic ASMs, and a projected carrier is "All these things?" Less than half of what I was building during the war.

So, how do you plan on making shells without copper/tin casings? It's rather fundamental and rather necessary, you know. Not trying to be a troll, but you're still not getting it.

I don't need to answer to a dictator bent on grabbing as much land as possible and in the fastest time.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 3:21 pm
 Group admin 
Declassified CR:

During the course of the heated Great American War, WR operatives managed to snake themselves into key HAT-1 production facilities and breach most of the defenses around the design prints; however, they didn't get the entire war machine's data. Due to the large and mostly complicated design of the HAT-1, the tangible blueprints were chopped into several, well-protected computerized bits for the sake of rapid production and easier accessibility; this pretty much killed any snapshot operations from taking place. Regardless, the WR SOFs did manage to steal designs for the following: filtration system, basic and intermediate electronic software and hardware [so everything save the fire control and communications systems], suspension, internal design structuring, powerplant, and a list for the composite armor materials [but not the actual layering and application processes/values]. The armament and exact armor design are presently safe due to an array of firewalls that killed the intruding hardware. Not too shabby though.


Anyhow, I know this is incorrectly portrayed from the plans you forwarded to me, Ultra, but due to the heavy nature of the selected war machine, I don't see it feasible that every factory has access to tangible paper documents relating to the exact design. Seems too mainstream and insecure. But I think I did a fair job regardless. :3

Also, this is again a declassified CR. So all of the above happened during the war, not after; therefore not violating the recently ratified treaty. Have fun bickering, kiddies.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 3:25 pm
 Group moderator 
Well, with what we had our hands on before, I think we'll make it through. Thanks, Dr. S!

That's been added to our list of projects. The M100 MBT (WR version of the HAT-1) should be complete soon. We'll probably be using our own fire control design and weapons calibre, but now we will have a tank that can match the enemy gun-to-gun. My, that thing will look mighty sweet with Iron Fist, don't you think?

Hmm, I wonder how much this info will net on the open market?

Quoting Nick Shelton
I don't need to answer to a dictator bent on grabbing as much land as possible and in the fastest time.

Well, I don't care (ok, I do, but still) but the next CM might be very interested to learn that you'll be throwing bullets instead of shooting them, armor-piercing rounds will lack completely tungsten, and that your tanks will be using low-grade steel for armor since your out of titanium mines. Makes no difference to me, but you might get a rude awakening since we're watching shipments to make sure the treaty is kept.

I'm just saying, you can buy the stuff, so it makes no difference, but it needs to be addressed. I'm done, but unless we see that you've addressed it, it will be taken up with the next CM and I don't think you'll like the results too much.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 3:31 pm
Quoting Dr. Spontaneous

Another reminder that the WR's equipment is so shoddy, they look to the PCU for it. Too bad they didn't get the armor, where the good stuff is.

Quoting Ultramarine

Use your own stuff, ghetto man.

And you have no business watching my shipments. You can watch the border, but you don't watch my seas.

I also have a question.

How come none of my infiltration and capturing missions were successful, but every single one of the Allies did? Doesn't seem fair.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 3:37 pm
Quoting luke peterson
Well, I recently had the snot beaten out out of me, and all land stripped. I am still crying on the inside. By the way, please check your FM.

fm isn't working for me at the moment, something wrong with my yahoo account.

so... who attacked you? are you officially conquered? whats going on in the american war? anyone attack me?
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 3:38 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
Another reminder that the WR's equipment is so shoddy, they look to the PCU for it. Too bad they didn't get the armor, where the good stuff is.

More of an investment, my boy.

Quoting Nick Shelton
Use your own stuff, ghetto man.

And you have no business watching my shipments. You can watch the border, but you don't watch my seas.

Telling me what to do? Space Command sees all. I'm not going to miss something because I suffer from target fixation, thank you.

Or, should I say, come and make me.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 3:39 pm
Quoting Danny Morgan
fm isn't working for me at the moment, something wrong with my yahoo account.

so... who attacked you? are you officially conquered? whats going on in the american war? anyone attack me?

I attacked mozambique, Henry had problems with it, and after two CRs I surrendered, I'm still a country, I just lost all of my foreign land.
The great american war is over, but nick and ultra are still arguing like little children over the treaty. Your name hasn't been mentioned once while you were gone.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 3:49 pm
Since nobody but Awe and myself know the components of the armor, how could Ultra realistically produce it?

That'd be like me attacking the Coral Sea, and destroying everything there, without knowing the defenses.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 3:50 pm
Quoting luke peterson
I attacked mozambique, Henry had problems with it, and after two CRs I surrendered, I'm still a country, I just lost all of my foreign land.
The great american war is over, but nick and ultra are still arguing like little children over the treaty. Your name hasn't been mentioned once while you were gone.

ok... well its one step that the war has actually ended...
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 3:55 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Nick Shelton
How come none of my infiltration and capturing missions were successful, but every single one of the Allies did? Doesn't seem fair.

I don't recall seeing any significant infiltration plans from the info given to me, but I'll look it through again to double-check. If I find something, I'll write another CR for you.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 4:02 pm
Quoting Dr. Spontaneous
I don't recall seeing any significant infiltration plans from the info given to me, but I'll look it through again to double-check. If I find something, I'll write another CR for you.

I don't have any in my recent orders, but before I sent in at least two of them and both of them failed, despite large amounts of planning on my parts.

If it's of any worth, both of the failed attempts were modded by members of the Allies.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 4:04 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
I don't have any in my recent orders, but before I sent in at least two of them and both of them failed, despite large amounts of planning on my parts.

If it's of any worth, both of the failed attempts were modded by members of the Allies.

Henry was never a member of the allies. Matt certainly wasn't either. If we're calling out moderators, let's not forget the guy that delivered those teams that later became a moderator and handed you an outrageous victory. If we're weighing things here, the balances would never match up.

They failed because I had excellent rear-area security combined with some subterfuge intended for a completely different reason that just happened to work against your plans. The reason mine were rather successful is classified.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 4:10 pm
Quoting Ultramarine .
Henry was never a member of the allies. Matt certainly wasn't either. If we're calling out moderators, let's not forget the guy that delivered those teams that later became a moderator and handed you an outrageous victory. If we're weighing things here, the balances would never match up.

They failed because I had excellent rear-area security combined with some subterfuge intended for a completely different reason that just happened to work against your plans. The reason mine were rather successful is classified.

I wasn't necessarily talking about you.

And Matt and Henry certainly were Allies, but it doesn't matter. If you're going to be as underhanded as to make peace and then capture equipment, it's fine with me. Bring on the shipments.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 4:12 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
Since nobody but Awe and myself know the components of the armor, how could Ultra realistically produce it?

That'd be like me attacking the Coral Sea, and destroying everything there, without knowing the defenses.

I know the composition, just not how it's applied. Some testing time is all that is required before I'll come up with something good enough to make them a dead-heat in the CRs. It's not like it will be that hard, either. It's like making a cake, if you know the ingredients, all you need is to mess around until you make it right. Just ask that guy that makes the chain-food recipes in his kitchen and then writes them up in books.

Hehe, yep, come on down and find out why don't you?

Quoting Nick Shelton
I wasn't necessarily talking about you.

And Matt and Henry certainly were Allies, but it doesn't matter. If you're going to be as underhanded as to make peace and then capture equipment, it's fine with me. Bring on the shipments.

"Also, this is again a declassified CR. So all of the above happened during the war, not after; therefore not violating the recently ratified treaty." -Dr. S.

I never violated the treaty, if you break it, then we have a problem...
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 4:17 pm
Quoting Ultramarine

Tell me the ingredients then, sir Chef.

I never said you broke the treaty. I'm just saying it was pretty underhanded.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 4:19 pm
 Group admin 
Hate to burst everyone's production bubbles, but here are the economic and military penalties for the factions involved in the war. This means that within this period absolutely zero military production can be accomplished, and no military action may be taken. No complaining or whining or expect to see your number go up. If you want the rationale, just ask, but its a good one.

Allies:
WR-6 weeks
EC-3 weeks
Alaska-3 weeks
Brazil-3 weeks
Cuba-2 weeks

Axis
PCU-2 months
ACU-3 weeks
China-2 weeks
Special note- Egypt- no-war period is 4 weeks due to your entire military (from what I can tell) being destroyed in America. No production penalties.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 4:42 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nick Shelton
Tell me the ingredients then, sir Chef.

Gladly! It's *classified*, *classified*, and *classified.* Basically, I don't have to tell you. I don't even have to know them. The combat moderator says I got them, that's all any future CM will need to know. If they don't believe it, they can always reread the CR; like I suggest you do.

And getting the mix right won't be too much of a problem; I'll even tell you how I'm going to do it.

First, you get some materials engineers together (like me). Then you give them the list of compounds (I got those, just not how they 'stack up' whatever that means, but I'll forgo whatever sketchy info that got me.) and have them figure out the stresses, strains, shears, compressions, and tensions that the materials can take. Combine (or 'stack') them in up to 20 of the most likely and strongest combinations. Then, I'll send those out to the firing range to see how they stack up against the battlefield data that was recorded by my tankers (probably test it against the C5A and M90 MkII). If they fail the tests, send 'em back to the labs. If they pass, Houston we have a go-ahead. Who knows, I might come up with an even better combination than before? That should take all of one-two weeks. Huh, I'd love to see HAT-1 armored M90s going around too, wouldn't you?

As for the fire controls, those are fixed easy enough and no CM I know would think that would make the difference between battles. I could guess the caliber of the gun, just look at a hole in the side of one of my poor little M45s would tell me that.

Quoting Nick Shelton
I never said you broke the treaty. I'm just saying it was pretty underhanded.

So is getting someone to infiltrate a group and steal war plans, but hey, all is fair in love and war.

Quoting Matt Hacker
This means that within this period absolutely zero military production can be accomplished, and no military action may be taken.

WR-6 weeks

This is acceptable. Unless we're attacked, correct?

Day to be back up & running: June 13th, 2037.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 6:00 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Dr. Spontaneous
Regardless, the WR SOFs did manage to steal designs for the following: filtration system, basic and intermediate electronic software and hardware [so everything save the fire control and communications systems], suspension, internal design structuring, powerplant, and a list for the composite armor materials [but not the actual layering and application processes/values]. The armament and exact armor design are presently safe due to an array of firewalls that killed the intruding hardware. Not too shabby though.


Well, that's a setback.

Quoting Ultramarine .


So, it's confirmed you're jelly of my weaponry. A flattering thought. I now have a set course for the future.

Quoting Danny Morgan
anyone want to give me an update? I can't find the time to read through everything I've missed.

Awe, is indo free?


Long story short, Ultra invaded Nick for the lulz (unneeded pre-emptive strike?), Nick's been reduced to the West Coast between the sea and the Cascades/Sierra Nevada.

Indonesia? Looks to be so. Feel free to return from your exile at any time. You'll find the economy improved since you left, and you'll be receiving a rain check for some of my upcoming advanced defense systems, to stop a repeat of the Pacific War.

As for everything else, 2 weeks of cool-down is much better than I expected. Time to turtle up.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 7:00 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
So, it's confirmed you're jelly of my weaponry. A flattering thought. I now have a set course for the future.

You're welcome! Though it's more to find out what makes them tick and come up with a more effective counter than to produce them as a main-line unit considering a cheaper tank already has achieved a 2:1 kill ratio over it.

Hmm, well, do what you feel you have to. Though I'm sure everyone will agree 100% that theft is a much more worthy cause for war than an all-out attack. Well, 'cause it's you attacking me instead of me attacking someone else, that makes it all 'Ok.'



Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 7:12 pm
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great
So, it's confirmed you're jelly of my weaponry. A flattering thought. I now have a set course for the future.

Didn't you say something once about responding with great violence if anyone stole one of your vehicles?

Probably what Ultra's going for, but eh.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 7:21 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C
Didn't you say something once about responding with great violence if anyone stole one of your vehicles?

Probably what Ultra's going for, but eh.

Not really. Not saying I wouldn't love to use some of the 'ol ICBMs again (since I've been missing the sight of them lately) but I had to have some sort of memento of this war.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 7:23 pm
 Group admin 
Just for a few days the groups theme music has been altered.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 7:24 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Matt Hacker
Just for a few days the groups theme music has been altered.

You realize you're going to get this entire group deleted, right? =D
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 7:30 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Thomas N
The Baltic Union gladly accepts our order of B-3s. Your money will be forwarded.

Right, did we discuss a price? Was it $180 million/piece? I think that's what I told Jack, but just wanted to make sure.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 8:05 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Ultramarine .
You realize you're going to get this entire group deleted, right? =D


Ssssshhhhh! It will only be for today.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 8:14 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Matt Hacker

Ssssshhhhh! It will only be for today.

Eh, well, I backed up my stats in a word document, just in case... =P
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 8:20 pm
I like how the people who lost more men than the entire US losses in Vietnam gets less jail-time than someone who lost less than those in Iraq. :|

And I'm not complaining, just mildly displeased at (Allies giving Allies free-time!) my time.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 8:21 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C
Didn't you say something once about responding with great violence if anyone stole one of your vehicles?

Probably what Ultra's going for, but eh.


Not quite violence. But there will be consequences.

Quoting Matt Hacker
Just for a few days the groups theme music has been altered.


ME GUSTA.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 8:21 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Nick Shelton
I like how the people who lost more men than the entire US losses in Vietnam gets less jail-time than someone who lost less than those in Iraq. :|

And I'm not complaining, just mildly displeased at (Allies giving Allies free-time!) my time.


Evan gave me these numbers, so your argument is invalid.
He wrecked your economic and industrial base. Pure and simple.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 8:27 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
Quoting Dr. Spontaneous

Another reminder that the WR's equipment is so shoddy, they look to the PCU for it. Too bad they didn't get the armor, where the good stuff is.

Quoting Ultramarine

Use your own stuff, ghetto man.

And you have no business watching my shipments. You can watch the border, but you don't watch my seas.

I also have a question.

How come none of my infiltration and capturing missions were successful, but every single one of the Allies did? Doesn't seem fair.

Because some of MY missions WERE successful.

Which reminds me, how's that half-a-power-grid of yours doing, Ultra? How are the repairs? Oh, that's right. You can't repair a power grid that's been fried on the inside out by a combined physical and cybernetic attack.

Have fun making all your new toys with half your nation's power.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 8:35 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe

Which reminds me, how's that half-a-power-grid of yours doing, Ultra? How are the repairs? Oh, that's right. You can't repair a power grid that's been fried on the inside out by a combined physical and cybernetic attack.


Of course, he could spend his 6 weeks fixing that...

Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 8:38 pm
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe

I would not be talking mister a majority of my military is lying dead in Baja and sunken at the bottom of the ocean.

@Nick
You are completely crazy if you think you lost less than 4,000. As you did not read your losses not to mention that the carrier losses equal to much more than that.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 8:41 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
Because some of MY missions WERE successful.

Which reminds me, how's that half-a-power-grid of yours doing, Ultra? How are the repairs? Oh, that's right. You can't repair a power grid that's been fried on the inside out by a combined physical and cybernetic attack.

Have fun making all your new toys with half your nation's power.

I'm sorry? Those cyber attacks were thwarted, or in limbo as there was never a chance for orders to go through any further. All military computers were isolated from the grid months ago, and so they weren't affected. I do seem to recall some sort of virus trying to eat through my civil grid, but it was said that a simple measure would eradicate the threat.

If you wish to back up your claims, kindly fetch me a quote from the CR that says so, because I certainly don't remember any such attack being very successful. Little snipits said that the teams were killed or captured, that's about it. One tried to take out a factory that wasn't there...

EDIT: I found it!
"At the same time all axis forces attempted a hack attack on the WC, it worked partially. Military systems were well guarded and so were not affected that much. But private web security failed, and 50% of many systems are shut down. Although, this can all be fixed once the virus implanted is removed."
So, actually it took all of 15 minutes to fix. Well, ok, it was 3 days; but still.

Yes, with ninty-nine percent of your hardware at the bottom of the ocean or currently being collected for scrap (oh, that gives me an idea!) in the Baja, it's not time for you to talk.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 8:54 pm
Equipment that is ENTIRELY OBSOLETE on the bottom of the ocean XD
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 9:27 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Kaiser Pharaoh Cliffe
Equipment that is ENTIRELY OBSOLETE on the bottom of the ocean XD

I'm glad you're finally admitting what we already knew about the war chariots...

Wait, then why on earth were you taking it there in the first place? It's one thing to lose stuff, but to try to say "Oh, der, I wanted it that way!" is just ridiculous. That's like saying to your killer as you die "That's ok, I was going to kill myself anyway." If they were so obsolete, you wouldn't have been using them at all.
Permalink
| May 2, 2011, 9:35 pm
Group moderators have locked this conversation.
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