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 Group moderator 
So, Sean, I want to start out by saying that the new MOCpages looks great (albeit a bit too bubbly for my taste). It has been a bit too slow today, but that is probably just because there has been a bunch of traffic. So, I have a question, seeing as this is a vignette group: What is the difference between a vig and a diorama (which you are also an admin for)?
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| December 29, 2008, 9:40 pm
 Group admin 
Recently I've noticed people getting away from this and calling almost any scene a vignette, but 8x8 has been the "official" standard since the beginning:
http://news.lugnet.com/build/vignette/FAQ




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| December 30, 2008, 12:23 pm
 Group moderator 
I know that vigs are 8x8, but could they be, say, 16x16, and still technically a vig? Also, where is the line between a vig and a dio?
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| December 30, 2008, 12:33 pm
Yeah, you're right Shannon. I just took off my long ones and left the 8x8's. =)
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| December 30, 2008, 12:58 pm
Quoting Makuta Bane .
So, Sean, I want to start out by saying that the new MOCpages looks great (albeit a bit too bubbly for my taste). It has been a bit too slow today, but that is probably just because there has been a bunch of traffic.


Glad you like it. :) The slowness, sadly, is due to the ads. Most pages are served out by MOCpages in under 0.1 seconds (wow!) but the ads often add another 3-5 seconds (or more) :( to the load time. It's because the servers at the ad company are slow. I'm looking into ways of speeding it up, or getting a better ad network. Sadly, the ads have to stay on the pages because they pay the (very high) bills for hosting MOCpages.
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| December 30, 2008, 1:31 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Sean Kenney

Glad you like it. :) The slowness, sadly, is due to the ads. Most pages are served out by MOCpages in under 0.1 seconds (wow!) but the ads often add another 3-5 seconds (or more) :( to the load time. It's because the servers at the ad company are slow. I'm looking into ways of speeding it up, or getting a better ad network. Sadly, the ads have to stay on the pages because they pay the (very high) bills for hosting MOCpages.




That stinks. It's kind of weird, though. When I load MOCpages, and it goes slowly, I get the adds first, and then the meat of MOCpages. It just might be my end.
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| December 30, 2008, 2:53 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Makuta Bane .
I know that vigs are 8x8, but could they be, say, 16x16, and still technically a vig? Also, where is the line between a vig and a dio?


That article I linked to says anything over 16x16 should probably be called a dio. For my money, that's as good a guideline as any, and better than most. Vignettes are supposed to be relatively small.

I don't think there's a sharp cutoff line between vigs and dios that everyone's going to agree on, rather a fuzzy borderland of big vignettes/small dioramas. You will notice our fearless group admin sidestepped the issue completely -- I don't think he much cares about determining an orthodoxy.

I didn't mean to try and establish an ironclad 8x8 rule (especially as I'm not an admin here... yet!), that's just the definition I've always gone by. If it's smallish, and you consider it a vignette, I'd say go ahead and add it. Or re-add it, in JD's case.

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| December 30, 2008, 7:00 pm
 Group moderator 
Well, thanks for your thoughts, ShannY. You do have a point, that Sean just entirely avoided the subject. Since we are on the topic, should we try and make a dead rule for the line, or just not even bother with it? Thoughts?
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| December 30, 2008, 8:43 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Shannon Young

That article I linked to says anything over 16x16 should probably be called a dio. For my money, that's as good a guideline as any, and better than most. Vignettes are supposed to be relatively small.

I don't think there's a sharp cutoff line between vigs and dios that everyone's going to agree on, rather a fuzzy borderland of big vignettes/small dioramas. You will notice our fearless group admin sidestepped the issue completely -- I don't think he much cares about determining an orthodoxy.

I didn't mean to try and establish an ironclad 8x8 rule (especially as I'm not an admin here... yet!), that's just the definition I've always gone by. If it's smallish, and you consider it a vignette, I'd say go ahead and add it. Or re-add it, in JD's case.


There is quite a fine line between Vigs and Dios, you're right, but there is some sort of line nonetheless. Vignette literally means 'small scene' or 'snapshot': so Vignettes are for showing one thing eg a man finding a Fridge, a man being chased by a turkey. Dioramas are for large cityscapes or warscapes. People often think of Dioramas as large or long-baseplated Vignettes. It's not about the size. You could have a huge Duplo man finding a fridge or being chased by a turkey, it's still a vignette, albeit a very large one. The difference is in how many things the MOC shows. Dioramas show many scenes at once: eg. all those Star Wars battle MOCs you see everywhere. Oh, the site is great Sean, but I can't help thinking it's lost something. The top banner seems a bit...i dunno, blocky. No pun intended. And could you move the top ad to the bottom of the page? It's so mean to have it above your banner. At least it's not for Roblox. I swear, if anyone EVER dares put a Roblox creation on here, I will get very angry.
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| January 2, 2009, 6:00 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting William Dalton
Vignette literally means 'small scene' or 'snapshot': so Vignettes are for showing one thing eg a man finding a Fridge, a man being chased by a turkey. Dioramas are for large cityscapes or warscapes. People often think of Dioramas as large or long-baseplated Vignettes. It's not about the size. You could have a huge Duplo man finding a fridge or being chased by a turkey, it's still a vignette, albeit a very large one. The difference is in how many things the MOC shows. Dioramas show many scenes at once: eg. all those Star Wars battle MOCs you see everywhere. Oh, the site is great Sean, but I can't help thinking it's lost something. The top banner seems a bit...i dunno, blocky. No pun intended.


So, by your definition, if it has more than 1 action (controlled by you, of course), then it's a dio? So, if on an 8x8 base plate, there is a hook-handed monkey eating a banana and a pirate shooting a skeleton, it's a dio? That does not seem right to me.

Oh, and I think it's more bubbly than blocky, IMHO.
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| January 2, 2009, 10:21 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Makuta Bane .
Quoting William Dalton
Vignette literally means 'small scene' or 'snapshot': so Vignettes are for showing one thing eg a man finding a Fridge, a man being chased by a turkey. Dioramas are for large cityscapes or warscapes. People often think of Dioramas as large or long-baseplated Vignettes. It's not about the size. You could have a huge Duplo man finding a fridge or being chased by a turkey, it's still a vignette, albeit a very large one. The difference is in how many things the MOC shows. Dioramas show many scenes at once: eg. all those Star Wars battle MOCs you see everywhere. Oh, the site is great Sean, but I can't help thinking it's lost something. The top banner seems a bit...i dunno, blocky. No pun intended.


So, by your definition, if it has more than 1 action (controlled by you, of course), then it's a dio? So, if on an 8x8 base plate, there is a hook-handed monkey eating a banana and a pirate shooting a skeleton, it's a dio? That does not seem right to me.

Oh, and I think it's more bubbly than blocky, IMHO.



Well, I suppose there is a big difference between one man doing two things, and fifteen people doing fifteen different things. Now you're just being picky! There is a HUGE difference between a large-scale warscape and one pirate drinking rum and shooting a skeleton. The latter only includes ONE minifig. Maybe the difference between a Vignette and a Diorama is the amount of minifigs. Say, 5 or more minifigs in a MOC equals a Diorama. You see?
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| January 2, 2009, 11:02 am
 Group moderator 
Wow, I think I just got moderated. I am not trying to be nit-picky here, I just think that the number of minifigs is not the way to go. What if you want a dio about just MOCed robots, without minifigs? By your definition, it would not be a dio. If anything, it should be more of action than minifigs. But, I think size is much easier to classify. Actions are good, but size is what people think about.
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| January 2, 2009, 12:29 pm
 Group admin 
I think it's a good point about the action taking place in the scene. I have built things, Solitude - http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/70727
and Stranded - http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/71472 for example, that I call dioramas because of the size of the footprint. However, what there is of any action centers around the single minifig in each, so I could see each being termed a vignette if you go by the "still snapshot in time" philosophy. A scene the same size, but with twenty minifigs doing crazy things, I could not see calling a vignette.
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| January 2, 2009, 7:00 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Shannon Young
I think it's a good point about the action taking place in the scene. I have built things, Solitude - http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/70727
and Stranded - http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/71472 for example, that I call dioramas because of the size of the footprint. However, what there is of any action centers around the single minifig in each, so I could see each being termed a vignette if you go by the "still snapshot in time" philosophy. A scene the same size, but with twenty minifigs doing crazy things, I could not see calling a vignette.


You have a good point, Shannon, and I think vignettes should have nothing to do with size. Those two examples are Vignettes: they show one thing happening, one significant thing. Maybe we should judge Dioramas on how many significant events are happening simultaneously. Sounds confusing, but it works like this: these significant events could be, say, one Clone trooper dying, one Clone trooper shooting, a mountain falling over. Things like a man holding a fish AND the man seeing a turkey are not, because they both fall under the same man. One significant event per man (minifig or character), shall we say? Do you see what I mean?
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| January 3, 2009, 7:36 am
 Group moderator 
Yah, that sounds good. But, with vigs, there could be more than 1 minifig in them. So, lets say, 4-6 actions make a diorama?
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| January 3, 2009, 1:34 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Makuta Bane .
Yah, that sounds good. But, with vigs, there could be more than 1 minifig in them. So, lets say, 4-6 actions make a diorama?


Yeah, sure. I like this idea, giving technical names to things. It's fun. I think 4 seperate actions (or, let's call them SEs (significant events: so not waves lapping, or one piece of snow looking like it's falling down a mountain))or more make a Diorama. 1-3 SEs make a Vignette.
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| January 4, 2009, 10:09 am
 Group moderator 
You know, that sounds good. BUT (sorry to make things difficult for everybody, I just want to iron out all of the wrinkles) what happens in vertical vigs? You know the ones that is like 20 studs high? What happens if it is on an 8x8, with a bunch of levels and a like 5 minifigs doing something different on the different levels? With the rules we are making, it would be a diorama. So, how about 1-3 SEs per layer/level?
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| January 4, 2009, 11:47 am
 Group admin 
I keep going back to that article I originally linked to. I see no reason to overturn the precedents that have been set. Size does matter with vignettes, but also the feeling conveyed by the action involved.

So, flushed with the power of my new admin crown (thanks, Sean!), here is what I propose:

Anything on an 8x8 or smaller base, regardless of height or action, shall be considered a vignette.

Anything from 8x8 to 16x16 should have no more than two or three action events, whatever term it was you guys coined, to be considered a vignette.

Anything larger than 16x16 should be limited to one action event to be considered a vignette.

Basically my thought is that as the footprint grows, less must be going on for it to still have the "feel" of a vignette.

Does that work for you guys?
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| January 4, 2009, 11:25 pm
Sounds good to me...Mr. Admin Sir. =)
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| January 5, 2009, 12:15 am
 Group moderator 
Yeah, that sounds good enough. And let's say that no matter how tall something is, if it still constricts to those rules (say it's on an 8x8 base), it is still a Vignette. Think Diorama = Panorama. Sorta.
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| January 5, 2009, 6:20 am
 Group moderator 
That actually sounds great, Shan! How is it that we sit here debating for about 20 posts, and you, the mighty admin, come in and solve it in 1 comment? Anyways, that sounds great to me. I was reluctant to change the whole 8x8 thing in the first place.
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| January 5, 2009, 8:29 am
Quoting Brad Jasko
Sean,how long did it take you to make mocpages any way?


1,650 hours. (That's nearly a year of full time work.)

Plus another 1,850 hours of customer support over the past 5 years.

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| January 5, 2009, 5:06 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Sean Kenney

1,650 hours. (That's nearly a year of full time work.)

Plus another 1,850 hours of customer support over the past 5 years.


Like, woah. AND still keeping up your own cool job of creating LEGO® MOCs for a living. You are the coolest, most hardworking guy I've ever...er...not met. Well done. Have you got my email yet??
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| January 6, 2009, 3:08 pm
The vig is smaller...
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| November 10, 2011, 1:38 pm
I was just wondering. Is a vignette any particular scene? Or does it have to be from a book or movie? Just trying to make sure!
-LB Senior
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| January 5, 2012, 3:54 pm
A vig may represent anything you want. ;D
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| February 4, 2012, 3:14 pm
Do any of you want to join my Vignette group (not this one, one that I made)?
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| February 26, 2012, 10:07 am
hello
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| March 29, 2012, 9:10 am
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